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Old 07-09-2007, 08:31 PM   #361
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This thread is too damn amusing to be closed. On a scale of 1-10 I give it a 9! You guys are great!
me too.

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As far as the OP is concerned I would like to add that if the only source of proof for the 900+ year age of these people is found only in the Old Testament and not anywhere else, I would doubt that it is true. I doubt it ever happened. If you believe it's true then surely you believe in talking snakes, being swept up to the heavens in a chariot, the sun stopping, men being swallowed by wales, etc. All these things slap "reality" in the face (not just science).
I think afdave does believe all these things, except the wales. Men actually have been swallowed by wales, in many a mining disaster. Whales are another question.

(thank you, I'm here all week.)

But have whales ever been swallowed by wales?

Even during gales?
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Old 07-09-2007, 08:50 PM   #362
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Well, to be honest, Dave... and considering the "Burmese" passage you mentioned which I posted up in context...I can't imagine taking that as "Biblical" in any way. 1 million Earths? Five suns? Sounds suspiciously like myth to me, or maybe bad science fiction from the Hugo Gernsbeck 1920's.

I did ask you about the Chinese reference and the page number for that.
Hey, you aren't bashing good old Hugo, are you?
Not HUGO, no...but I guess you may have read a bit of E.E. "Doc" Smith? My favorite phrases of his are "Sweet spirits of Niter!" and "Holy Klono's iridium intestines and carballoy claws!" both used as exclamations somewhere in the Lensman stuff. Oy, vey.
What's almost as bad is: weighing wailing whales in Wales way well. Whoa
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:33 PM   #363
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No, afdave really means to say that they literally lived literal ~1,000 year lives, Chili. Just because you interpret the entire Bible as one long mystical metaphor doesn't mean everyone else does.

Sorry, just trying to give he poor guy a way out.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:29 AM   #364
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As ever, in your eagerness to repeat the words of others, you failed to read what I wrote.

Always a good thing. But you may find that elementary manners would equip you to express the second-hand ideas that you repeat uncritically with more grace.
(abuse snipped)
May I ask why you, a total stranger, scream abuse at me?

All the best,

Roger Pearse
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:35 AM   #365
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Thank you for your thoughts, but in fact I have, as I have said, no interest in the (useless) question that you want to discuss.
Then why are you even reading this thread? The SUBJECT of this thread is whether or not ancient humans had improbably extended lifetimes... (snip)
You may certainly request administrator action if you think that I am in some way violating forum etiquette.

But perhaps you might find it useful to reread what I wrote in response to the OP. The issue that I raised seems to me much more interesting than simply reiterating slogans.

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Everyone should be familiar with Methuselah who supposedly lived 969 years and the other pre-Flood patriarchs who lived 900+ years.
If you look at the Chronicle of Eusebius, book 1, he quotes material from Alexander Polyhistor which in turn is taken from Berossus, a priest of Bel in Babylon writing in the early Seleucid period (ca. 300). This has enormous numerals for lengths of reigns; so much so that Eusebius expresses his doubts about how this could possibly be so.

Firstly the numerals could be corrupt, as it was very hard for isolated numbers in Greek and Latin texts to avoid this; secondly the word for the measurement express a word which tends to be rendered as 'year' but could be 'month' or some shorter period. The various changes in language involved allow the introduction of mistranslations, meaning that what reached Eusebius may not have been what Berossus intended to say; or what the ancient temple records originally meant before Berossus transcribed them in the manner of his own day. There are references to myriads of years -- which might be 10,000's of years, if myriad=10,000; or 'large chunks' if myriad is being used more loosely. And so on. These issues were certainly known, therefore, to the ancients.

There seems no real reason why very large numbers in OT texts could not have suffered such a process also; namely that they could be corrupted in transmission, or else originally express ideas which do not come across by a simple rendition as 'n years'.

As far as I am aware the precise lengths of the reigns of ante-diluvian kings are of no theological significance to anyone, and it would be imprudent to infer theological conclusions from these pieces of data about very ancient reign-lengths in ancient texts.

Eusebius: "And indeed if for so many thousands of years, which are calculated according to their chronography, the successors (as kings) of the nations were also mentioned as equally long-lived, and likewise any works and deeds carried out in the period (take a long time), corresponding to the length of the period, perhaps one might justifiably question whether it is possible that in fact in some way the truth is not in these things.

Indeed because they assigned so many myriads of years for the reign of just ten men, who would not consider that stories of this kind were not fables and the products of deranged minds? It may be then that the 'sars' that we have mentioned before do not signify a 'year' but another short interval of time. Likewise among the ancestors of the Egyptians they used to speak of lunar cycles, i.e. the days of a month, 30 days altogether, calling these 'years'."
This forum normally has room for scholarly enquiry, you see, and that was the point of my post.

All the best,

Roger Pearse
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:36 AM   #366
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May I ask why you, a total stranger, scream abuse at me?
Probably because of the way you acted.

But come now, don't act coy and ignorant; Smully's already answered your insincerely-posed question; you merely chose to ignore it. I'll insert the answer to your question, repeated for your benefit:


What I wish to say to Roger is: Cal has a point, and her manners are far better than your own. The science that you so casually dismiss is well within your ability to understand, if you simply apply a little effort. Until you do so, you will continue to make yourself a laughingstock by making bold statements that are at odds with well established knowledge.
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Old 07-10-2007, 12:44 AM   #367
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Then why are you even reading this thread? The SUBJECT of this thread is whether or not ancient humans had improbably extended lifetimes... (snip)
You may certainly request administrator action if you think that I am in some way violating forum etiquette.
Etiquette? No.
But the topic is already in progress. If you don't like it, fine.
But instead you whine and snipe when people don't want to follow you down your little rat hole.
Eric's only explaining why your expectations are unrealistic.

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But perhaps you might find it useful to reread what I wrote in response to the OP.
*sigh*
Everyone's already read your pedantic meandering, Roger. It's not a question of failure to read your post. It's merely that your post is 100% irrelevant to the OP.

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The issue that I raised seems to me much more interesting than simply reiterating slogans.
"Seemed to you much more interesting." That appears to be the root of your problem.

You wanted to talk about something else, even though the topic of the thread was already established. And when you didn't get your way, you decided to try and steer the conversation in that direction anyhow.

Hint: if anyone else had agreed and thought your topic was more interesting, they would have followed you down your rat-hole. Since that clearly didn't happen, that means the rest of the participants were more interested in staying focused on the original topic that started the thread. You didn't get any takers for your de-railment. Accept it and move on.

Sheesh. No wonder you're so confused about the flow of the debate.

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If you look at the Chronicle of Eusebius,
No thanks. We aren't talking about whether the texts are corrupt. Nobody cares at this point. We're talking about whether there is any physical evidence to support afdave's literalist viewpoint.

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This forum normally has room for scholarly enquiry, you see, and that was the point of my post.
The evidence says otherwise.

1. The thread already had a topic.
2. You didn't like the topic, so you tried to change it.
3. When nobody followed you, you decided to ask irrelevant questions and try to place imaginary burdens of evidence on people's backs.
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:02 AM   #368
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OK, guys, cool it with the personal jabs and the discussion of moderation issues.

If there's no more to be said about 1,000 year old men, we can just close this thread, and I notice no one has been on topic for a while.

Toto
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Old 07-10-2007, 01:05 AM   #369
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(abuse snipped)
May I ask why you, a total stranger, scream abuse at me?

All the best,

Roger Pearse
You have a very strange definition of "screaming abuse".
I didn't think Smullyan was doing anything of the sort.

Edit: Good idea Toto. This thread's farked.
 
Old 07-10-2007, 02:05 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Toto View Post
OK, guys, cool it with the personal jabs and the discussion of moderation issues.

If there's no more to be said about 1,000 year old men, we can just close this thread, and I notice no one has been on topic for a while.

Toto
:wave: Think I was at #348!
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