Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 11-15-2005, 08:40 AM

Message to J. S. Dileo: I shouldn't have discussed any of the events of the Tyre propehcy in this thread. The events of the prophecy should be discussed in the thread that is titled 'The destruction of Tyre.' The opening post in this thread deals only with the dating of the prophecy, which is in fact the most important issue. The events of a prophecy are completely irrelevant unless it can first be reasonably established that the prophecy was made before the events. Do you have any evidence when the Tyre prophecy was written? It also needs to be reasonably established that the version of the Tyre prophecy that we have today is the same version as the original. Do you have any evidence regarding this issue.

I noticed that you referred to an article at tektonics.org. That is James Holding's web site. I embarassed him on a number of occasions at the Theology Web. You obviously put a lot of credibility in his questionable abilities. Let's put him to the test. The Theology Web banned me on trumped up charges, and Holding was quite pleased about it because I had embarrassed him on a number of occasions, including in a thread that I started that is titled 'James Holding's article on the Tyre prophecy is fraudulent.' I request that you post my arguments from this post at the Theology Web in a new thread, or send my arguments to James Holding in a private message. If you do, I predict that he will refuse to reply to my arguments, or if he does, that I will embarrass him.

There is no automatic correlation that can be made between the ability to predict the future and goodness. Deuteronomy 13 says that bad people can predict the future too? Why do you believe that God is good in tangible ways today, and that Jesus healed people?

JSDileo · 11-15-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

I noticed that you referred to an article at tektonics.org. That is James Holding's web site. I embarassed him on a number of occasions at the Theology Web. You obviously put a lot of credibility in his questionable abilities. Let's put him to the test. The Theology Web banned me on trumped up charges, and Holding was quite pleased about it because I had embarrassed him on a number of occasions, including in a thread that I started that is titled 'James Holding's article on the Tyre prophecy is fraudulent.' I request that you post my arguments from this post at the Theology Web in a new thread, or send my arguments to James Holding in a private message. If you do, I predict that he will refuse to reply to my arguments, or if he does, that I will embarrass him.

There is no automatic correlation that can be made between the ability to predict the future and goodness. Deuteronomy 13 says that bad people can predict the future too? Why do you believe that God is good in tangible ways today, and that Jesus healed people?

Really? Wow. Makes me feel different, since his website essentially led me to Christianity. I don't consider myself an expert by any means, heck, I'm only 14. I will try to send him an e-mail about this, as you request.

Jonathan

EDIT: I just sent him an e-mail about this.

Sauron · 11-15-2005, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Message to J. S. Dileo: I shouldn't have discussed any of the events of the Tyre propehcy in this thread. The events of the prophecy should be discussed in the thread that is titled 'The destruction of Tyre.'

I copied JS Dileo's opening post over there. Start here.

11-15-2005, 07:21 PM

Sheeesh!

Sauron, if you're doing this for the lurkers, give up now! It's really boring arguing about argument and it would be a miracle if anyone else read the whole thread (I certainly didn't). You are clearly right about the burden of proof, but is there any point arguning with someone who can't even follow elementary school standards of debate? Kudos for stamina.

mata leao · 11-15-2005, 07:48 PM

cajela, you <edit>have not read my commentaries on the propehcy in "the destruction of tyre " thread and you will see why Sauron is afraid to answer my question "was ezekeil likely treated rerlatively well in Babylon"? (thats why sauron is afraid to let this go) he knows where it leads!!!!!!

Johnny Skeptic · 11-16-2005, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnySkeptic

I noticed that you referred to an article at tektonics.org. That is James Holding's web site. I embarassed him on a number of occasions at the Theology Web. You obviously put a lot of credibility in his questionable abilities. Let's put him to the test. The Theology Web banned me on trumped up charges, and Holding was quite pleased about it because I had embarrassed him on a number of occasions, including in a thread that I started that is titled 'James Holding's article on the Tyre prophecy is fraudulent.' I request that you post my arguments from this post at the Theology Web in a new thread, or send my arguments to James Holding in a private message. If you do, I predict that he will refuse to reply to my arguments, or if he does, that I will embarrass him.

There is no automatic correlation that can be made between the ability to predict the future and goodness. Deuteronomy 13 says that bad people can predict the future too? Why do you believe that God is good in tangible ways today, and that Jesus healed people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Really? Wow. Makes me feel different, since his website essentially led me to Christianity. I don't consider myself an expert by any means, heck, I'm only 14. I will try to send him an e-mail about this, as you request.

EDIT: I just sent him an e-mail about this.

As Farrell Till has said, James Holding is a wanna be apologist. I have sent Holding headin' for the hills on a number of occasions. He wouldn't be caught dead at this forum because he knows that he will embarrass himself. He refuses to answer any of the e-mails that I send to him at his web site because he doesn't want to embarrass himself anymore than he already has.
I'll tell ya what. Just tell Holding that I will pay him $500 if he will show up at this forum and debate the Tyre prophecy with me. I promise you that he will refuse to debate me.

Now you wouldn't care to attempt to accurately date the Tyre prophecy, would you? After all, that issue is what this thread is about.

11-16-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

cajela, you <edit>have not read my commentaries on the propehcy in "the destruction of tyre " thread and you will see why Sauron is afraid to answer my question "was ezekeil likely treated rerlatively well in Babylon"? (thats why sauron is afraid to let this go) he knows where it leads!!!!!!

Oooh, I got insulted, how exciting. I have read the other thread, and your argument is scanty. All hypotheticals and no evidence.

mata leao · 11-18-2005, 01:53 PM

cajela you have it completely backwards, the atheist position is all hypotheticals and NO evidence! Ezekiel was likely treated reasonably well as a captive/exile/colonist in Babylon,according to reasoanble historical analysis. As soon as someone will concede this we can finish the debate. What are you all afraid of???????

Sauron · 11-18-2005, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mata leao

cajela you have it completely backwards, the atheist position is all hypotheticals and NO evidence!

You have it backwards. The burden of proof is on those claiming the prophecy came true -- it is not on the skeptic.

And let's just do it again, for completeness sake - here is the list of claims that you have yet to support. For someone who tries to say that atheists are "all hypotheticals and no evidence", you're certainly doing a lot of ducking and dodging. :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Quote:

*You misidentified your first claim.
* The evidence is only sufficient to prove the general case, not the specific;
* You now have this list of claims to support:

(1) forced 'concubinry' involving Tyre -- per your specific claims earlier, and not a general comment on the ubiquitous slave trade in the ANE;

(2) unusual Greek involvement in such sex trade, at this stage in history - also per your claim;

(3) proof of Greek 'conquests' at this period in history, which was a full century and a half before the golden age of Athens, and even longer from the rise of Sparta;

(4) how eradicating the Babylonian 'hegemony' in the Mediterranean would somehow force the liberation of exile Jews in the capital city of Babylon, hundreds of miles away;

(5) that the Babylonian court paid any attention to the prophecies of a Jewish priest held captive with the exiles, as opposed to just ignoring the rambling words of another one of their "pet exiles";

(6) that the Babylonians were somehow 'emboldened' by Ezekiel's prophecy to attack Tyre -- according to your claim -- when otherwise they were not intending to do so already;

(7) the people of Tyre somehow got wind of Ezekiel's prophecy - how did that happen?

(8) and then afterwards, the Tyrians and were thus given a 'false sense of security' - in spite of the fact that they were correct about their security;

(9) that any Jewish children held in Tyre would have been held only on the mainland, instead of the island city - again, according to your claim;

mata leao · 11-18-2005, 06:54 PM

when I get a ruling on point on then we can go to the next one.......

11-15-2005, 08:40 AM	#101
Johnny Skeptic Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 19,796	A simple invalidation of the Tyre propehcy Message to J. S. Dileo: I shouldn't have discussed any of the events of the Tyre propehcy in this thread. The events of the prophecy should be discussed in the thread that is titled 'The destruction of Tyre.' The opening post in this thread deals only with the dating of the prophecy, which is in fact the most important issue. The events of a prophecy are completely irrelevant unless it can first be reasonably established that the prophecy was made before the events. Do you have any evidence when the Tyre prophecy was written? It also needs to be reasonably established that the version of the Tyre prophecy that we have today is the same version as the original. Do you have any evidence regarding this issue. I noticed that you referred to an article at tektonics.org. That is James Holding's web site. I embarassed him on a number of occasions at the Theology Web. You obviously put a lot of credibility in his questionable abilities. Let's put him to the test. The Theology Web banned me on trumped up charges, and Holding was quite pleased about it because I had embarrassed him on a number of occasions, including in a thread that I started that is titled 'James Holding's article on the Tyre prophecy is fraudulent.' I request that you post my arguments from this post at the Theology Web in a new thread, or send my arguments to James Holding in a private message. If you do, I predict that he will refuse to reply to my arguments, or if he does, that I will embarrass him. There is no automatic correlation that can be made between the ability to predict the future and goodness. Deuteronomy 13 says that bad people can predict the future too? Why do you believe that God is good in tangible ways today, and that Jesus healed people?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-15-2005, 07:21 PM	#104
cajela Guest Posts: n/a	Sheeesh! Sauron, if you're doing this for the lurkers, give up now! It's really boring arguing about argument and it would be a miracle if anyone else read the whole thread (I certainly didn't). You are clearly right about the burden of proof, but is there any point arguning with someone who can't even follow elementary school standards of debate? Kudos for stamina.

11-15-2005, 07:48 PM	#105
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	cajela, you <edit>have not read my commentaries on the propehcy in "the destruction of tyre " thread and you will see why Sauron is afraid to answer my question "was ezekeil likely treated rerlatively well in Babylon"? (thats why sauron is afraid to let this go) he knows where it leads!!!!!!

11-18-2005, 01:53 PM	#108
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	cajela you have it completely backwards, the atheist position is all hypotheticals and NO evidence! Ezekiel was likely treated reasonably well as a captive/exile/colonist in Babylon,according to reasoanble historical analysis. As soon as someone will concede this we can finish the debate. What are you all afraid of???????

11-18-2005, 06:54 PM	#110
mata leao Banned Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: tampa,florida Posts: 342	when I get a ruling on point on then we can go to the next one.......

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.