S.C.Carlson

Yeah, the John 21 appearance is so Johannine in many respects that, if it has any connection to the lost ending of Mark, it would have to be a near-total rewrite.

We're not out of luck, however. Luke 5 seems to preserve another form of the appearance. Do you see anything Markan underlying that?

Stephen Carlson

Ted Hoffman

:rolling:

Vorkosigan

• 1
  1 While the crowd was pressing in on Jesus and listening to the word of God, he was standing by the Lake of Gennesaret.
  2
  He saw two boats there alongside the lake; the fishermen had disembarked and were washing their nets.
  3
  Getting into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, he asked him to put out a short distance from the shore. Then he sat down and taught the crowds from the boat.
  4
  After he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, "Put out into deep water and lower your nets for a catch."
  5
  Simon said in reply, "Master, we have worked hard all night and have caught nothing, but at your command I will lower the nets."
  6
  When they had done this, they caught a great number of fish and their nets were tearing.
  7
  They signaled to their partners in the other boat to come to help them. They came and filled both boats so that they were in danger of sinking.
  8
  When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at the knees of Jesus and said, "Depart from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man."
  9
  For astonishment at the catch of fish they had made seized him and all those with him,
  10
  and likewise James and John, the sons of Zebedee, who were partners of Simon. Jesus said to Simon, "Do not be afraid; from now on you will be catching men."
  11
  When they brought their boats to the shore, they left everything 2 and followed him.

David Ross who also argues that John 21 is the lost ending of Mark (scroll halfway down to "the Missing ending of Mark" says this was transported into John by the later redactor. Ross writes:

• "Irenaeus quoted liberally from John 1-20 (including 20:31 - III.16.5), but he did not quote from chapter 21. He thought that Luke 5 was the only place to find a story on Jesus commanding a miraculous catch of fish:
  
  All things of the following kind we have known through Luke alone (and numerous actions of the Lord we have learned through him, which also all [the Evangelists] notice): the multitude of fishes which Peter's companions enclosed, when at the Lord's command they cast the nets; ..."

I don't think there is an original ending here.

I have often thought about the original ending of Mark (OEM) in the context of a giant gospel chiasm. There has to be something to match the beginning, just as John announces the Word into the world, so the disciples must now bear the Word out into at the end. That's why Matthew's ending is probably closer to the one Mark must have had. It makes sense, since Matt follows Mark closely, that his ending would too. But Matt's ending reads like a summary of something, especially v17 and v20. Perhaps Goodacre's theory of fatigue in the Synoptics in action...Matt got to the end of the Mark and just chucked in the towel, and wrote a quick sketch rather than a reproduction of it.

• 16 The eleven 9 disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had ordered them.
  17 When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted.
  18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
  19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
  20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

Vorkosigan

Amaleq13

Seems like a reasonable speculation to me but, given the generally negative portrayal of the disciples by the author and the fact that OEM has apparently not been preserved, what form might such an ending have taken?

How would the author maintain the image of disciples that didn't understand Jesus while depicting them as accurately spreading the gospel?

And why wouldn't it have been preserved if it was consistent with the extant endings? Lost early and by accident?