aa5874

Why in the world can't you even write what is attributed to Justin Martyr??

First Apology

Duvduv

Spare me the contradiction out of both the entire Apology and my entire posting. You mean to tell me that little unimportant Justin is standing up to big bad Emperor on behalf of the Tutsi in Rwanda, the aborigines of Australia, the Berbers of the Maghreb?

It would be like a forest ranger in Montana writing the President on behalf of all persecuted people throughout the world.

And this is all the while Justin spends his time haranguing about how his little insignificant religion is SO important even compared to the wicked Marcion. Did he at least set up a good website or blog?

aa5874

Why can't you even write what is attributed to Justin Martyr?? You seem to be inclined to mis-represent the writings attributed to Justin.

Now, Aristides also wrote to the Emperor of Rome.

The Apology of Aristides

Sheshbazzar

Time constraints imposed by family obligations forced me to be very brief in this my previous reply.

You do realize, do you not aa, that the GREEK titles 'Catholic and' 'Orthodox' are not constrained only as descriptives to the ROMAN forms of orthodoxy?

I did not write anything about at all about the ROMAN Catholic Church.

I did not state that I believed the writer(s) of the works of 'Saint Justin' were latter ROMAN Catholics.

These latter forgeries, interpolations, and added texts could have as easily been introduced by the GREEK Orthodox and CATHOLIC church.

In fact I believe that much of this expansion of theology and innovation upon the primitive gospel memoirs actually was fashioned, instigated, and promoted by The COPTS, with theological ideas and 'Apostolic' stories developed in Alexandria Egypt being exported to Cyprus, Philippi, Thessaloniki, Athens, and Corinth, long before ever reaching Rome.

The GREEKS and EGYPTIANS were deeply into the 'Christian' theology and the expanding of the church and faith before the Romans were barely aware of it.

That the very terms are taken from the GREEK and employed even by Rome and ROMANS, is indicative of the true roots.
Had the ROMANS been the leaders and innovators of the Christian faith, LATIN language terms would have been used, retained, and prevailed.
Instead even the ROMANS to this day employ these ancient GREEK terms which they had recieved.

Most of what is identified as 'orthodox' and 'catholic' beliefs was already developed and being taught before the ROMAN Catholic church ever came into power.
What ROME took and ran with, was taken from the GREEKS and the Copts.

aa5874

Your posts are becoming so painful to read. Your story keep changing.

Tell me, did you NOT claim Justin was a SAINT and Church Father of the Catholic Church??

Justin is acknowledged as a SAINT and Church Father of the Roman Catholic Church.

Again, examine Excerpts of your own post

Sheshbazzar

Where do you see the word ROMAN used in any of my posts in this entire thread, previous the line quoted above ???

Do the search, and PRODUCE any other sentence in this entire thread -previous to this statement-, where I have employed the words 'ROMAN Catholic'.
You cannot.

Yes. I did. 'SAINT JUSTIN' the 'Martyr' was first a SAINT in The GREEK Orthodox Catholic Church, and from there became a recognized SAINT in all ALL other 'CATHOLIC' church's

He was recognized as a Church Father, a Saint, and a 'Martyr' of the Orthodox and CATHOLIC GREEK Church long before the ROMAN Catholic Church ever recognized and adopted him.
Virtually all Christian Church's accept 'St. Justin The Martyr'. But it began with the GREEK Orthodox and Catholic Church, and the terms are GREEK, given to the world, the 'Roman' Church included, by the GREEK traditions and language.

He was designated as being a 'martyr' for the Faith, which is the highest classification and honor that can be bestowed upon a saint. (his father's surname was not 'Martyr')

Rather obviously, as I have said, you do not comprehend the meanings of the materials you have been misreading and abusing.




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aa5874

I did a seach and you never claimed you were referring to the Greek Orthodox Catholic Church.

Please present your Credible sources of antiquity for the Greek Orthodox Catholic Church. Please identify Credible Sources of antiquity for everything you have said previously about Orthodox Catholic Churches.

What??? Please provide your Credible source of antiquity that Saint Justin the 'Martyr was FIRST a Saint in the Greek Orthodox Catholic Church.

When was the Greek Orthodox Catholic Church started and what Credible source of antiquity did you use???

Please provide the Credible source of antiquity that shows that The Greek Orthodox Catholic Church wrote or manipulated writings attributed to Justin.

Please provide your Credible source of antiquity that shows Justin was made a Saint LONG BEFORE the Roman Catholic Church.

I no longer accept Imagination, Presumptions or Discredited sources as evidence.

You have still NOT identified one single statement by Justin that is NOT Credible.

Sheshbazzar

Please. Do your own research for the answers to these questions.

You think you are learned? Then you tell us what you think you know about your 'CREDIBLE witness 'Justin Martyr, including when and where he was first declared a 'Saint', and a 'Martyr', and by whom.
I'm not stopping you. And I'm not going to do your work for you.

And you have still not answered one of those Questions you asked for in Post #359, and I presented to you in Post #360.
Your evasions are speaking louder than your words.



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Duvduv

Shesh, maybe we should go easy on AA. It appears he sees his role as defense attorney for his imagined 2nd century Justin. Or perhaps spokesman. He knows what it means for mainstream beliefs if there is no Christianity in the 2nd century, and he hangs on to it for dear life.
I hope he works only on a contingency basis and that old Justin (or his Old Man) are financially able to pay attorney's fees to AA. On the other hand, if AA fails, they don't have to pay a dime.

Seeing as how there is NO EVIDENCE that such an Apology was ever actually mailed to the Emperor or that the Emperor ever received such a document or replied to it, I would say the contingency fee is apt to be unpaid.

The situation is EXACTLY the same as the situation of the epistles - - no evidence they were actually written to anyone, no evidence anyone actually received them, and no evidence anyone even lived in the communities written to.

As we say in Yiddish: "Azoy mit kreplach."

Sheshbazzar

I shouldn't have needed to. And I did not because the words 'catholic' and 'orthodox' are from the GREEK, where they were used first.
The Romans didn't invent or initiate the usage of these words.

Moreover, I did not write the title 'Greek Orthodox Catholic Church' in my discussions on these matters, because, in the 2nd century time frame under consideration the Title 'Greek Orthodox Catholic Church' would have been an anachronism and mis-identify what I was speaking of.

If you will look back, and attempt to comprehend, you might discover that my argument was that there was no such thing as a truly 'CATHOLIC' or 'ORTHODOX' church in the early 2nd century CE, but there were 'multiple Christianities' with highly divergent and unorthodox theologies that were neither 'CATHOLIC' nor 'ORTHODOX' in their views. Thus my position that 'Justin Martyr's' writings are the forged products of a latter (Greek) church that over time had -came to be- 'CATHOLIC' and 'ORTHODOX' in its theology by the eventual (3rd and 4th century) acceptance and endorsement of its views by the majority of Greek Christians.


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