Toto

The moderator calls a time out.

Red Dave: Please assume that Johnny Skeptic is speaking as if the gospel were true. But he doesn't believe it.

No more discussion of alleged anti-Semitism in this thread, please.

austin2

saying Jews killed Jesus is 'alleged' antisemitism?

mmmmmmmmmmok

Peter Watts

Usually when you write a hero's tale, you describe a special kind of someone doing something epic and heroic. Abraham was never described as anything special or showing any great courage. He didn't perform 12 labors, kill a minotaur or anything like that.

Mageth

Here's my take on it:

Abraham (if he existed) brought his personal god with him out of Ur. IIRC, everyone in that region tended to have their own personal or "tribal" god that watched over them and their family. "I am the god of Abraham". His descendants continued the practice of relationships with their own gods: "The god of Isaac", and "the god of Jacob." We've just come to interpret those gods as all referring to the same God.

Those personal gods were later melded with El and YHWH, other regional Gods. The Torah codifies the myths and legends, making them all appear to be stories of one God, when actually it's an amalgam of myths and legends of several gods.

The myth of YHWH "choosing" Abraham is just part of the overall myth. Abraham had his own tribal god. We just now refer to that god as YHWH.

Toto

Because I don't want to have a discussion about whether Jesus existed, whether Abraham existed, whether the gospels are history, whether the statement was meant seriously or ironically in the spirit of the previous two posts which did not take the question seriously.

This whole thread is a bit peculiar.

Anat

At the age of 75 he left everything because he heard a divine command. He had faith in a divine promise to make him the father of many nations despite the fact that his wife was childless and post-menopausal. He fights 4 kings. When he realizes that his one deity, the one he had been relying on for any plans for future generations, was about to commit a major atrocity he debates with him. He doesn't lose faith when the deity informs him his progeny will suffer 400 years of captivity. At the deity's command Abraham circumcises himself at the age of 100. When he is called to sacrifice the son through whom the the divine promises were supposed to be fulfilled he obeys without doubts or questions (and when the act is called off he has to be stopped). This might not look impressive to an outsider, but in a culture that emphasizes utter submission to the deity Abraham is the exemplery role model.

austin2

yes it is, especially the originating comment, followed by a frown icon.

Like any other mythology, people are free to ignore the story of Abraham, as they are free to ignore the story of Zeus or Odin

Johnny Skeptic

It must be asked what evidence is there that God did choose Abraham?

hinduwoman

Ok, basically then no one actually has a traditional explanation except that Abraham was the first man to understand there is only one god. ?

Johnny Skeptic

There is no evidence that Abraham was the first man to understand there is only one god, and more importantly, there is no evidence that God chose the Jews to be his chose people. I suggest that you go to Aplologetics 301 forum at the Theology Web and start a new thread about these issues. There are a lot more Christians there than there are at this forum. If you do start a new thread on these issues at the Theology Web, please provide us with a link to the new thread.