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Old 07-02-2012, 10:38 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by Huon View Post

Sorry, Littlejohn, I was not explicit enough.
In italian, Tito can mean the latin name Titus.
In french and probably english, Tito reminds us of the leader of Yugoslavia... and not of some Titus.
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Maybe it's my fault ... because now that you've pointed out it, I realize I have written the name of the eldest son of Vespasian in the way that we use to write it in Italian (Tito, to be precise), when instead I should bring back it in the original Latin form (Titus).

An annoying setback, therefore!.. Allons enfant!.. (but with caution)

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Old 07-03-2012, 12:13 AM   #82
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Duvduv, wandering in this thread, wrote:

I thought Luke was related to the named ELYAKIM or ELYAKUM just as Matthew is MATITYAHU and John is YOCHANAN. I figured that Mark was MORDECHAI.
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I do not believe that Matthew comes from Hebrew Matityahu ... It is not a 'peregrine' hypothesis to believe that Matthew could arise from MAAT-THEUTH(*), taking into account the real theological perspectives of Jesus, and the fact that he spent about 3 years of his life in Egypt, mainly in Alexandria .. . (see Celsus, the Talmud and the Gospels).

Matthew definitely don't went to Egypt with Jesus, and this means that if truly his pseudo-name derives from 'Maat-Theuth', Jesus applied it to him after his return from Egypt.


___________________________

(*) - THEUTH: Egyptian god 'handyman', equated to hellenic Hermes; MAAT goddess of the truth, considered by the Egyptians the feminine counterpart of the God Theuth/Thoth.


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Old 07-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #83
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..I do not believe that Matthew comes from Hebrew Matityahu ... It is not a 'peregrine' hypothesis to believe that Matthew could arise from MAAT-THEUTH(*), taking into account the real theological perspectives of Jesus, and the fact that he spent about 3 years of his life in Egypt, mainly in Alexandria .. . (see Celsus, the Talmud and the Gospels).
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Who was really Matthew?...

According to the Fathers of the church, Matthew and Levi were actually the same person. In the Gospel of Mary is mentioned only Levi. However, through the slanderers writings of the so-called 'heresiologists fathers', we now know that the gnostic Heracleon, listing the disciples of Jesus, considered Matthew and Levi two different people.

There is little doubt about the fact that around the characters like Lazarus, Nicodemus, Bartholomew, Matthew and Levi (perhaps a SAME character) the forger Fathers of the origins imbastirono a rather complex and mysterious texture, in order to hide what it could not absolutely be revealed! (see, for example, the 'disquieting' content of Epistle of Clement of Alexandria, discovered by Morton Smith)

To substantiate such, legitimate a hypothesis, there is the tangible proof represented by the fact that WELL 3 of 4 evangelists DELIBERATELY ignored the story of Lazarus, narrated by the only John .... Why all this? ....(*)


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(*) - what legitimately can be guessed from the 'scabrous' content of the letter of Clement of Alexandria, namely the 'ambiguous' relationship between Jesus and 'Lazarus' (the 'young man' whom Jesus loved: see the Clement's Epistle), is strikingly confirmed by a pagan author of second-century! ...


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Old 07-03-2012, 03:38 PM   #84
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Errata corrige: (into previous post)

"...the forger Fathers of the origins imbastirono a rather complex and mysterious texture.."


'Imbastirono', an italian term per english 'basted', namely prepare two flaps of fabric to be joined to be sewn together. In italian it is a dialectal idiomatic figure.


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Old 07-05-2012, 04:57 PM   #85
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Default Etymology of Luke

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Originally Posted by Huon:

The name Luke derives from the Greek LEUKOS, meaning white, brilliant.
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Quote:
stephan huller

....The Latin Lucas and the Greek Leukios would both become Luka (with QOF) in Aramaic, and this would go back into Greek as Loukas.
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Quote:

Hard-Rain: (an expert by ancient Greek language)

Quote:

Littlejohn:

The pseudo-name Luke, in fact, derives from the Latin LUCOS (grove, little thicket, glade in the grove).
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There is no need to resort to Latin because already in greek language λουκος means "grove" (Plutarch, Rom, 20, 2). To be verified, however, that this is not one of the rare loans from Latin.

On the other hand it is also true that λουκα in greek means 'farinata' (porridge?) according to the lexicographer Hesychius, V-VI century. AD). Luke, the evangelist's name, one write Λουκας, to the nominative

Other famous names by root λουκ are: Λουκα (= the city of Lucca), Λουκιανος (= Luciano), Λουκιλλα (= Lucilla), Λουκιος (= Lucio), Λουκυλλος (= Lucullus), Λουκανιος (= Lucano), etc. ..

H-R
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:18 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Hard-Rain:

The passage Adv.Haer. 3,15,1, unfortunately, is not known in greek, which was the original language. That portion of the text is derived from Latin translations made ​​on the original greek. The English translation of the Loeb says:

"For neither can they contend that Paul was no apostle, when he was chosen for this purpose; nor can they prove Luke guilty of falsehood, when he proclaims the truth to us with all diligence. It may be, indeed, that it was with this view that God set forth very many Gospel truths, through Luke’s instrumentality, which all should esteem it necessary to use, in order that all persons, following his subsequent testimony, which treats upon the acts and the doctrine of the apostles, and holding the unadulterated rule of truth, may be saved."

I seem that it speaks of "many truths of the Gospel" or something like that. Unfortunately I have not even the Latin version to see if that "very many Gospel truths" is a forced translation or if it is done with fidelity versus the Latin text (which, however, is not the language of origin).
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What follows is the Latin version of A.H. 3-15.1:

"..Neque enim contendere possunt Paulum non esse apostolum, quando in hoc sit electus; neque Lucam medacem esse possunt ostendere, veritatem nobis cum omni diligentia annuntiantem. Fortassis enim et propter hoc operates est Deus plurima evangelii ostendi per Lucam, quibus necesse haberent omnes uti: ut sequenti testificationi eius, quam habet de actibus ete doctrina apostolorum, omnes sequentes, et regulam veritatis inadulteratam habentes, salvari possint. Igitur testificatio eius vera et doctrina apostolorum manifesta et firma, et nihil subtrahens neque alia quidem in abscondito, alia vero in manifesto docentium..."

".. Fortassis enim et propter hoc operates est Deus plurima evangelii ostendi per Lucam, quibus necesse haberent omnes uti.."

From what little I can understand about Latin, I do not seem that Irenaeus spoke of 'many truths of the Gospel'.... What one guess is that God, through Luke, chose to make known to men a variety of gospels ...

All this is explained (unless you believe Irenaeus totally insane) with the fact that behind the pseudo-name of Luke, was hiding in fact a multiplicity of characters, which gave birth, through different modes (but not by much) to the four canonical gospels. I repeat that it was a 'team' mixed, but dominated by the pagan priestly component .

Almost surely, for example, Aniceto, the FIRST TRUE bishop of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church (the attribute 'Christian' will come later), was a priest of the Mithraic cult, the one closest to the emperors (see also Constantine I).


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Old 07-06-2012, 10:24 PM   #87
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"...Almost surely, for example, Anicetus, the FIRST TRUE bishop of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church (the attribute 'Christian' will come later), was a priest of the Mithraic cult, the one closest to the emperors (see also Constantine I)."
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- Pope Anicetus -

It is worth mentioning (see the works of Tertullian) the circumstance that Aniceto was able to earn what would become one of the most prestigious professorships in history, through the corruption of the electoral college, composed of the 'holy' presbyters.

At the expense was Valentino, the candidate most endowed and more prepared for this role. He, as it did Marcion (because nauseated by the environment with which he had previously worked), he abandoned the 'cheerful' and corrupt 'clique' for operate on his own, founding a sect whose doctrine was halfway between the address catholic-orthodox and the one gnostic-jesuan.

From everything you can imagine easily that are blatant error those that contend that the church or the Catholic clergy, you are spoiled 'growing', having been the 'sacred' institution morally rotten since its birth, miserably showing its nature and its origins purely secular!..


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Old 07-07-2012, 02:12 PM   #88
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Default Why Were the Gospels Written?

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Originally Posted by JP2 :

Why Were the Gospels Written?

...Basically, I'm interested in the motivations of the gospel authors. What were they trying to achieve in writing these texts and who were they writing for? The most common answer is that they were writing with an evangelical purpose: that is, to a wide audience with the intent of convincing them of the "good news" of Jesus Christ.
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Hello!

"...Why Were the Gospels Written?.."

Essentially for two reasons, the most important of which was to build a version 'ad-hoc' of the character known to the history with the name Jesus of Nazareth (in effect, his name was YESHAY, ie Jesse) and his real human story. A story entirely different from what we know today through the New Testament, and absolutely INCOMPATIBLE with that of a character, like Jesus, precisely, artificially made become a God and a 'son of God' (sic!)

Needless to say that, at that time, the Jews and the pagans - latter informed by the first - were fully aware of the TRUE historical profile of Jesus and his mother, and of their real history. Hence the need to mystify everything at the eyes of 'credulous devotees': namely the naive early Christian followers, unnecessarily alerted by pagan 'intellighenzia', constituted by individuals learned and motivated on the ethical 'plain', as, for example, the Stoic Neo-Platonist Celsus or his friend Lucian of Samosata!

Actually Jesus (the one true, that actually lived, unlike that of the Catholic magisterium, which, practically, does not exist on the historical level, so different he is from the real one!), was NOT NEITHER 'good' and NEITHER 'bad', but simply a man of his time, to which he tried to adapt himself as best he thought.

He should have been of interest to historians and novelists ONLY (*), and NOT to forgers theologians, who, in order to adapt its historical figure to their cynical purposes, did upset deeply his human and historical profile, and the true, and EXTRAORDINARY human story, of which Jesus became protagonist. (if it had been not so, he would NEVER gone down in history!)

All this thanks to his uncommon intelligence, coupled with the fact that he was a VERY learned person, in spite of the counterfeiter fathers of the origins, who have tried to propose him as an almost illiterate - in order to refute those among pagans, gnostics and Jews, claimed that Jesus had written several books (**) - and also to his uncanny ability to 'immerse' himself in various identities and roles, the last of which was that of a rebel leader that, along with other rebel leaders, participated to the defense of Jerusalem, besieged by legions of Titus.

It was the last role played, since, on account of what, Jesus was later executed - by STONING and NOT by crucifixion! - a couple of years after the end of the first Jewish War (ie around the 72 year)

The second reason for which the Gospels were written, was to provide a doctrinal basis for the new worship (ie the 'catholic-Christian' one, to which Jesus was TOTALLY stranger, he having been a convinced gnostic!), since the material used for the gospels do not had it. (in practice, ALL the so called 'Christian doctrine', is a mere invention of men passed into history with the high-sounding title of 'CHURCH's FATHERS', now better known as 'counterfeiter fathers of the origins'!)


Greetings

__________________________

(*) - actually part of that really it happened: just think (but NOT the only work!) to so-called 'Safed's Scroll', which us tells a part of his real story, though sometimes mixed with the 'popular' voices. which, for example, wanted that Jesus, after having escaped death on the 'cross' (event NEVER happened!) would have fled to India, and never more he return back to Palestine. (actually, it was from Rome that Jesus fled - see Suetonius, 'Impulsore Chrestos' - and never returned back). However, it is legitimate to assume that Jesus, in a certain period of his life, he may have traveled in the East, until arriving in the western part of what was then considered 'India' (basically the Hellenic kingdom of BACTRIA)

(**) - obviously in TOTAL contrast with those that were the assumptions of the nascent catholic-christian religion, built on an incredible and shocking cumulus of lies and deceit! ...


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Old 07-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #89
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Default 'Herodian Messiah' - by Joseph Raymond

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'Herodian Messiah' - by Joseph Raymond

Publication Date: February 14, 2010

Book Description:

Quote:

This work details the author's painstakingly collected evidence supporting a shocking theory, that Jesus was the grandson of both Herod the Great and the last Hasmonean king (Antigonus). The analysis begins with one loose thread in the official biography of Jesus Christ, the claim by the Sanhedrin that it lacked authority to execute him. Why didn't the Sanhedrin execute Jesus after convicting him of blasphemy? The same legal body executed Stephen and James the brother of Jesus for the same crime. During Roman times, the Sanhedrin lacked authority to execute only one class of Jew--Roman citizens. All descendants of Herod were Roman citizens. Two elements of proof for the theory are the ancestor list found in Luke, Ch. 3 (it appears to contain the names of Hasmonean kings) and Jesus' denial that he is a son of David. See Matthew 22:41-45, Mark 12:35-37 and Luke 20:41-44.
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Can anyone tell me what a reception has had the work of Joseph Raymond in the erudite world? ..

Thank you!

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Old 07-08-2012, 12:38 PM   #90
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Herodian Messiah (or via: amazon.co.uk)

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In January of 2012, Joseph Raymond gave an on-camera interview in Los Angeles with Karga Seven Pictures regarding theories contained in Herodian Messiah for a documentary on the Discovery Channel called "Jesus Conspiracies". I[t?] appeared in episodes 1 and 3 of the series.
Google books

www.jjraymond.com/ - his web site has excerpts

James Tabor has a favorable mention here

but otherwise the book has been ignored by the scholarly community.




eta: Jesus Conspiracies
Quote:
What do we really know about the life of Jesus? Jesus Conspiracies, premiering Thursday, April 19 at 10p scholars explore Jesus’ missing years, from a hidden bunker in a Nazareth home to clues that he may have been influenced by an apocalyptic desert sect. Jesus Conspiracies: Jesus’ Lost Years showcases historians and theologians drawing striking parallels between the teachings of a charismatic sect leader, described in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and those of Jesus Christ, generate controversy among historians and religious scholars. New evidence indicates that before Jesus was Christ to the Christians, he was a Jewish prophet – possibly even a dangerous rebel.
video at http://dsc.discovery.com/video-topic...milarities.htm
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