deadman_932

This forum serves a few purposes, one of which is to present and defend specific concepts. To do this, we can either talk amongst ourselves or look to those with contrary opinions to provide grist for the mill.

When typical theistic or pseudoscientific naifs show up for discussion, they're quickly cut down, which leaves only a few "kinds" of opposition. One of them will be trolls who are oftentimes true believers adopting that tactic to match wits in the most underhanded ways, sure. If they get out of hand, I like to try to see how good I can be in setting them up...then report the fuckers enough times to get some action. That's a valuable skill itself in these sorts of arenas.

Certainly there are utterly useless trolls prowling the forum spewing PRATTS and mind-numbing idiocy while seeking to piss people off deliberately. There's even those that speak utter gibberish -- for what purpose, I have no idea. But...conflict is the lifeblood of this sort of forum, I should think, and unless we are to talk amongst ourselves and find projects to engage in, then...well, we need opposition. With that opposition will come trolls. Set them up and get rid of them as best as you can. For myself, I keep an emotional and intellectual distance...this "forum" is not my fucking "home" and I barely "know" most people here, but I enjoy learning about things relevant to my interests -- I'm collecting and organizing the new information that people posted to AF Dave...shit on Suigetsu, etc., as a useful resource that emerged from stuff here.

Anyway, if we banned all opposition for the dumb shit and lies that MUST come from untenable positions, then we better get used to talking amongst ourselves, or start urging good debaters to come in from other forums. There's a middle ground in tolerating trollishness, but I personally think that the Powers That Be are a bit gunshy at the moment because of recent events -- plus the truth is that GOOD trolls can bring a shitload of hits for the site. The nutters and truly malicious trolls don't have to be ignored, but they can be...or one can cultivate other skills intended to outlast them/get rid of them. We don't have the exact same trolls here that we did when I first signed up to harass a certain YEC. It's a slightly different cast of characters, but it's still the SoS -- but even trolls can't win with bullshit in the long run. I'm not sure how I'd handle my own site, but I do know that my contributions to maintaining this site don't confer special rights to me in determining how it should be run, so I just learn to get along. I'd bet the Admins would appreciate any new perspectives on how to handle the issue without losing site traffic, though. My personal feeling is that if you have few rules...then the opposition gets hammered and all you have left are trolls. If you have more rules, posters have to develop more refined skills in dealing with the inevitable assholes and cranks that will take advantage of them. Just like real life, I suppose.

Sheshonq

I agree with all the above.

My only question is "why can't we call someone a troll when they display this behavior?"

If we don't ban trolls, then we must accept they fact that they will come here.
What's the harm in pointing out a troll when he/she does arrive?
Why is that a forum felony?

jjramsey

Maybe this answers the question?

Zeichman

I agree with Roger. For me, it became pointless and time-consuming to engage with ill-informed people who will never change their mind and to engage with apologists for JM-ism and some of its advocates. It's pretty clear that a lot of people are not interested in reading empathically or understanding mainstream scholarship and their first options are convoluted conspiracy theories or misrepresentation of dominant thinking. I'm open to whatever avant-garde scholarship is around, but it's got to be scholarship above all else for me to take it seriously. Seriously, if you've got an axe to grind about the historical Jesus, read the work by the Ancient Myths and Modern Theories of Christian Origins Seminar; it's some of the most technical and dense stuff I've come across, but it's completely devoid of apologetics and contains some of the most brilliant suggestions I've ever encountered.

No Robots

What I am criticising is mindless pedantic carping on insignificant details while refusing to consider the entire context. This is a failing not just on the part of spin, but of you and many of the other oh-so-erudite "Christians" who like to slum around here. For all your services in combatting mythicism in its trivial details, there remains in your approach a scholastic snobbery and a blindness to the big picture of Christ; and these are no small contributors to the disgust that many feel toward the whole subject of Christianity.

GenesisNemesis

Message to No Robots: Do you think you have acquired the absolute truth?

Ben C Smith

I guess my trial came sooner than expected. Thanks for the conviction.

Ben.

Toto

A correction: Doherty has not "fled the field". He will come out with a second edition of the Jesus Puzzle at some point. Vorkosigan is still a moderator on the Jesus Mysteries list, but is pursuing a PhD in a more remunerative field; his website is still up.

Zeichman

Blindness to what greater picture? And where do Christian beliefs come into play with HJ people on this board? The two most vocal advocates: Jeffery Gibson and (formerly) Chris Weimer were neither Christian. If "scholastic snobbery" means not supporting anti-intellectualism and dumbed-down-to-the-point-of-reductionistic work, then I don't see how it's wrong.

Amaleq13

Exactly. Let the "natural selection" process of the forum sink the nonsense into oblivion.

But why isn't that option viable for many?

Exactly!

Ignoring them doesn't feed the ego, amigo!!