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Old 03-17-2008, 09:29 AM   #21
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It should have been "a Christ" not "the Christ".
What should have been "a Christ" -- and why should "it" have been that rather than "the Christ"?

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Old 03-17-2008, 09:33 AM   #22
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Ben, I was very intrigued by Gundry's interpretation when I first read it. But it seems to assume Mark had very detailed knowledge of Jewish jurisprudence, whereas most scholars seem to agree that Mark was gentile.
Oh, I think Mark was pretty familiar with Jewish customs and such. But it is not necessary to suppose that he knew anything at all about blasphemy. See below.

Can you back up your assertion that most scholars agree that Mark was gentile? My own impression of the field is that most scholars think he was Jewish, while some think he was gentile. (But I have not done any kind of survey.)

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Also, whether Jew or gentile, why wouldn't Mark write YHWH if that was what was said? There's no prohibition against writing God's name, is there?
I do not know if there was any prohibition as such against writing the name; what I do know is that few, if any (?), ever did it in NT times. One looks in vain for a Greek transliteration of Yahweh in the NT or apostolic literature; instead, it is all circumlocution (Lord, God, majesty, what have you).

I suspect that even writing the name was considered risky, especially given that ancient manuscripts were usually written in order to be read aloud; Jerome even writes somewhere that scribes used Hebrew letters for Yahweh when writing the OT books in Greek.

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Using a circumlocution muddles the blasphemy issue - especially for a gentile audience.
It certainly does; but it is way too much to expect Mark to write out the divine name in his text, and I am not actually all the way convinced that Mark even knew what it was all about at this point of the narrative. It is possible that Mark simply got the story from oral tradition, in which the divine name would certainly not have been pronounced, or from prior transcripts of that oral tradition.

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Old 03-17-2008, 09:37 AM   #23
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But the problem with this approach is that it doesn't take Mark's text on its own terms.
The Marcan text on its own terms raises eyebrows because of the circumlocution power. Elsewhere Mark uses Lord. This suggests either a different source (oral tradition versus written LXX?) or a different treatment of the divine name over and against the other times the issue (of OT texts containing the name Yahweh) comes up in the gospel.

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Old 03-17-2008, 09:47 AM   #24
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How does the notion of Mark's author choosing to use "power" in quoting the blasphemy of Jesus rather than the offending word constitute or imply a conspiracy?
If Mark covered over or changed what he knew what was actually said, he's involved in a conspiracy of deception.

Jeffrey
Are you contending that there was a trial of Jesus before the Sanhedrin and that Mark is claiming to provide the equivalent of a court transcript?
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:53 AM   #25
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But the problem with this approach is that it doesn't take Mark's text on its own terms.
The Marcan text on its own terms raises eyebrows because of the circumlocution power. Elsewhere Mark uses Lord.
Aren't these all in quotations of the OT?

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This suggests either a different source (oral tradition versus written LXX?) or a different treatment of the divine name over and against the other times the issue (of OT texts containing the name Yahweh) comes up in the gospel.
Whatever it does (or does not) suggest is irrelevant to determining why it is that according to Mark, and within Mark's presentation of why the opponents of Jesus are his opponents, the particular response that the Markan Jesus gives to the High Priest's question evokes the reaction and the charge that Mark says it does.

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Old 03-17-2008, 10:03 AM   #26
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I know it’s been discussed that claiming to be the Messiah was not a blasphemy. But evidently “Mark” thought it was.
I hardly think so. And I do not believe that your claim is supported by anything in Mk. 14:61-64. In fact, your claim involves several misunderstandings -- the first about the nature of blasphemy; the second about what's going on in this text.

To see why I think this, have a look at two articles in link1 The Trial and Death of Jesus: Essays on the Passion Narrative in Mark, G. Van Oyen and T. Shepherd editors (Contributions to Biblical Exegesis & Theology, 45: PEETERS, 2006), namely, Adela Yarbro Collins' "The Charge of Blasphemy in Mark 14:64" and my "The Function of the Charge of Blasphemy in Mark 14:64".[*]

My article is available here (though you will have to join J.B. Gibson Writings to access it).

To give you some idea of my approach to, and conclusions about, the blasphemy charge, I've set out below the introduction to my article.

Jeffrey

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The Function of the Charge of Blasphemy in Mk. 14:64.

At Mark 14:64, at the conclusion of Jesus' "trial" before the Sanhedrin, Mark has Jesus' chief interrogator and judge, the (here unnamed) High Priest, proclaim that Jesus has committed the crime of blasfhmi/a, the willful and arrogant derision of the power and majesty of the God of Israel.
On the nature of the crime of blasfhmi/a, "blasphemy", see H.W. Beyer, "blasfhmew, blasfhmi/a, blasfhmoj, TDNT Vol. 1 (1964) 621-625. R. A. Brown, The Death of the Messiah, Vol. 1 (New York: Doubleday, 1994) 520-523: E.P. Sanders, Jewish Law From Jesus to the Mishnah (London: SCM/Philadelphia: Trinity Press International, 1990) 67-80: C. A. Evans, Mark 8:27-16:20 (Thomas Nelson & Sons: Nashville, 2001) 453-455.
The judgment, which secures a death sentence for Jesus from the rest of the Sanhedrin, is issued after, and in direct response to, Jesus' announcement in Mk. 14:62 that he is indeed "the Christ, the Son of the Blessed" whom his interrogator and all the Sanhedrin will eventually "see" being exalted by the God of Israel to this God's "right hand" and (if kai\ e)rxo/menon meta\ tw=n nefelw=n tou= ou)ranou= is a separate claim -- see below, note 8) also as one invested and acting with the authority to judge Israel and the world.

Of the many questions that surround the interpretation of this passage, the one that I wish to deal with here is one that has not only long intrigued interpreters, but which (if I judge things aright) has recently received renewed attention due to the publication in 2000 of Darrell Bock's Blasphemy and Exaltation in Judaism.
Darrell L. Bock, Blasphemy and Exaltation in Judaism: The Charge against Jesus in Mark:14:63 (Grand Rapids: Baker, 2000).
Why it is that Mark presents the High Priest and the Sanhedrin as responding in the way they do to Jesus' declaration? What, according to Mark, is the reason the High Priest and those gathered with him pronounce Jesus a blasphemer and worthy of death?

One answer that has long been given (and which Bock's work on blasphemy and exaltation in Judaism ultimately attempts to show, if not to prove, is a real possibility) is, of course, that historically this is exactly what the High Priest did. Jesus was actually pronounced guilty of the crime of blasphemy during a "trial" before the Sanhedrin and Mark is here simply passing on historical tradition.
Cf. Blasphemy and Exaltation, 3, 209-233. Bock's recent book is not the only place where he has set out to explore and attempt to defend the historicity of this charge. See his earlier studies "The Son of Man Seated at God's Right Hand and the Debate of Jesus' ‘Blasphemy'" in Jesus of Nazareth Lord and Christ: Essays on the Historical Jesus and New Testament Christology, J.B. Green and M. Turner, eds. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans/Carlisle: Paternoster, 1994) 182-191; and especially "Key Texts on Blasphemy and Exaltation in the Jewish Examination of Jesus," SBL 1997 Seminar Papers (Atlanta: Scholars Press, 1997) 115-160. It was within the 1997 SBL Session devoted to discussing this second essay, and in a private conversation with Darrell immediately afterwards, that the thesis of this present essay was germinated.

But critical scholarship has tended to reject this answer for a variety of reasons, among which (and for our purposes, perhaps the most crucial) is the observation, grounded in both narrow and wide studies of the idea of "blasphemy" in first century Judaism, that nothing that Mark reports Jesus as saying at Mk. 14:62 would or could have been characterized as Mark says it was. As Raymond Brown and others have argued, the claim to be Christ/Messiah (or Son of God -- if a separate title here)
On "the Son of the Blessed (God)" as a separate title in Mk. 14.61, see David Catchpole, The Trial of Jesus: A Study in the Gospels and Jewish Historiography from 1770 to the Present Day (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1971) 143-148; 200.
was never considered blasphemous.
Brown, The Death of the Messiah, 1: 534-536; Sanders, Jewish Law, 67-80; Pace J.C. O'Neill, Who Did Jesus Think He Was (London: E.J. Brill, 1995) who argues that Jewish Law stipulated that it was forbidden for the Messiah to announce himself.
And given that (as Bock himself has demonstrated) Judaism recognized that certain human figures, including the Messiah and the one designated by Daniel and Enoch as "(the) Son of Man," had been or could be divinely called "to sit" at God's right hand and to exercise judgment over Israel and the nations, neither was a claim such as we find Jesus apparently making about his right to heavenly enthronement.
Brown, The Death of the Messiah. See also Donald Juel, Messiah and Temple, 97-102. I say "apparently" here because there is some reason to believe that in Mark's eyes, kai\ o)/yesqe to\n ui(o\n tou= a)nqrw/pou e)k deciw=n kaqh/menon th=j duna/mewj ktl. is not actually a claim but only a declaration on Jesus' part of his certainty that he will be vindicated by God as "the Christ, the Son of the Blessed". As Juel notes (Messiah and Temple, 104-105), " From the remainder of the passion story it is clear that for Mark, the titles "the Christ, the Son of the Blessed" [and not "the Son of Man"] are decisive. Jesus is tried, rejected, mocked, and executed as "the King of the Jews," "the Christ, the King of Israel" [not as "the Son of Man"]. ... And if the centrality of the messianic imagery in the passion story indicates that this is where the evangelist intends to place the emphasis in 14:61-62," it is reasonable to infer [not only that the charge [of blasphemy] is to be related to the messianic claim," but that the Son of Man saying does not function "as an independent source of information or a separate claim".
Given this, it would seem that if we are to answer the question I wish to deal with here, we must move away from historical investigation about what was and was not considered blasphemous in Judaism in the first century and how this does or does not square with what Mark says is the occasion and cause of the charge leveled against Jesus, and adopt some other approach.

The one that I will explore here involves following the lead given us when we take into consideration what Ernst Lohmeyer, Vincent Taylor, and other scholars have noted is indicated by the fact that the question from the High Priest which begins the portion of Jesus' interrogation that culminates in the blasphemy charge (i.e., ei)= o( Xristo\j o( ui(o\j tou= eu)loghtou) is fronted with an unnecessary su. According to Lohmeyer and Taylor, this su is "emphatic and contemptuous," and since ei)= by itself in this interrogative context would mean "are you", the sense of the question Mark has the High Priest ask is not "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed", but "Are you of all people [God forbid!] the Christ ...?".
Ernst Lohmeyer, Das Evangelium des Markus (Göttingen: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht, 1963) 328; Vincent Taylor, The Gospel According to Mark (London: MacMillan, 1952) 567. See also C.A. Evans, The Gospel According to Mark, Vol 2 (Dallas: Word, 2001) 448; R. Gundry, Mark: A Commentary on His Apology for the Cross (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1993) 886.
If so, then, for Mark, what lies at the heart of the blasphemy charge -- that is to say, what offends the High Priest's and the Sanhedrin's sensibilities and makes them feel that the God of Israel has been denigrated and insulted -- is not what Jesus claims about himself. Rather, it is the fact that it is Jesus who is making Messianic claims.

But why, according to Mark, would the High Priest and the Sanhedrin feel so strongly not only that Jesus of all people is not someone whom God would ever ordain as his Messiah (or make judge of Israel and the nations), but that the claim on the part of Jesus to the contrary convicts Jesus of blasphemy? The answer lies, I think, in establishing six things.

1. Who, according to Mark, God was in the eyes of the High Priest and the Sanhedrin. The High Priest's and the Sanhedrin's judgement that Jesus is a blasphemer means, after all, that Jesus has offended their conception of who God is.

2. What, according to Mark, the Temple -- the edifice whose destruction the Markan Jesus, claiming divine warrant, symbolically enacted in Mk. 11:15-17 before astonished and enraged Sanhedrinists -- represented to the High Priest and the Sanhedrin.

3. What, if anything, the Christology of the High Priest and the Sanhedrin was -- that is to say, who, in Mark's eyes, the Temple Aristocracy believed the Messiah was, in kind and character, to be, what it was that the God of Israel has called him to do, and what the means were that this God had ordained as fitting for the accomplishment of the task(s) assigned to him..

4. Who it is, according to the High Priest and the Sanhedrin, who gets to do what Jesus apparently claims is his right to do , namely, to sit at God's right hand.

5. What, if anything, the Markan Sanhedrinists thought to be the case with respect to the question of what period in Israel's remembered and anticipated national history they and the rest of Israel now stood.

6. Who or what, at the point of Jesus' "trial", the Markan Sandedrinists know Jesus to be.
{* -mod note: check the Google books preview}
With all due respect, Dr. Gibson, your implied hypothesis appears to go a long way to make sense of a narrative claim that I think can be better explained by Marks simple ignorance of Jewish law. For one thing, The Mishnah Tractate Sanhedrin says that a person wasn't guilty of blasphemy unless he vocalized the tetragrammaton. There is also a Boraitha which goes further and says that a person must "curse the Name BY the Name."
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MISHNA VI.: A blasphemer is not guilty, unless he mentioned the proper name of God (Jehovah). Said R. Jehoshua b. Karha: Through the entire trial the witnesses are examined pseudonymously--i.e. (the blasphemer said): "Jose shall be beaten by Jose." (Rashi explains that the name Jose was selected because it contains four letters, as does the proper name of the Lord.) When the examination was ended, the culprit was not executed on the testimony under the pseudonym; but all are told to leave the room except the witnesses, and the oldest of them is instructed: "Tell what you heard exactly." And he does so. The judges then arise, and rend their garments, and they are not to be mended. The second witness then says: I heard exactly the same as he told. And so also says the third witness.

GEMARA: There is a Boraitha: One is not guilty unless he blesses (i.e., curses) the Holy Name by the Holy Name (as illustrated in the Mishna): "Jose shall be beaten by Jose." And whence is this deduced? Said Samuel: From Lev. xxiv. 16, of which the term in Hebrew is "we-nauquib shem," which means, "when he has cursed with the name."
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...anhedrin7.html

Mark does not say that Jesus vocalized the Hebrew name of God even once, much less that he "cursed the Name by the Name."

For another thing, Mark's entire trial is implausible and highly emblematic of fiction. The location of the trial, the day (not just on a sabbath but on a sabbath during Passover), the time of day (Mark's trial is at night) and the prouncement of a capital sentence on the same day as the trial are all violative of Jewish law and (in my opinion) the trial simply never happened. If it never happened, then no elaborate legal theory needs to be hypothesized for the blasphemy conviction. In Mark's mind, the Messiah was God, therefore the Sanhedrin would have thought it was a "blasphemous" claim. Mark either did not know Jewish law (and the whole of his trial narrative woulkd support my contention that he did not) or he was cynically counting on the fact that his audience did not.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:04 AM   #27
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Aren't these all in quotations of the OT?
Yes, of course. And the relevant verse in the trial sequence is also a quotation from (or at least an allusion to) Psalm 110.

They would virtually have to be quotations of the OT in order for us to be able to tell that one name has been replaced with another. Right?

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Whatever it does (or does not) suggest is irrelevant to determining why it is that according to Mark, and within Mark's presentation of why the opponents of Jesus are his opponents, the particular response that the Markan Jesus gives to the High Priest's question evokes the reaction and the charge that Mark says it does.
If Mark has picked this pericope up from oral tradition or from some other source, then it is quite possible that his conception of what the blasphemy was might differ from that same conception on the part of the previous tradents. IOW, what you argue about Mark may be correct (and there is no question that elsewhere in Mark blasphemy is used of words or deeds not associated with the divine name), but the pericope as Mark received it may have been formed from different ideas.

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Old 03-17-2008, 10:10 AM   #28
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My apologies for posting the redundant Mishnah material. I didn't finish reading the thread before composing my response.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:29 AM   #29
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[ In Mark's mind, the Messiah was God
And your evidence for this is what?

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Old 03-17-2008, 10:34 AM   #30
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If Mark has picked this pericope up from oral tradition or from some other source, then it is quite possible that his conception of what the blasphemy was might differ from that same conception on the part of the previous tradents. IOW, what you argue about Mark may be correct (and there is no question that elsewhere in Mark blasphemy is used of words or deeds not associated with the divine name), but the pericope as Mark received it may have been formed from different ideas.
I'm not interested in what may (or may nor) have been. I'm interested in what Mark tells us, and this cannot be decided on the basis of speculation of what may or may not have been the tradition reputedly lying behind Mk. 14:61-64.

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