christ-on-a-stick

As a hobby, I both a) compose music (piano) and b) write lyrics (aka poetry if the words never take to song )

Over the years, I have written a few songs that I was really happy with; in those cases, I realized that I wrote the lyrics first and then "found" the music for them. I haven't had much luck with trying to fit lyrics to a pre-determined musical structure.

I've been really stuck lately, though. I am an unabashed audiophile and listen to music constantly, almost to the point of feeling as though it is difficult if not impossible for me to conjure anything original. Is it advisable for me to self-impose a moratorium on listening, or ???

Oh, so the question, out of curiousity, was going to be - for others out there who compose both music/lyrics, do you have a pattern of which comes first or does it go either way depending on creative inspiration?

Magus55

I've dabbled a little into writing music ( i actually wrote my first classical piano song at 11 or 12, but don't have it anymore), and from the books i've read it really depends on what feels more comfortable to you. If some lyrics hit your mind first, start with that and then work on the music. If you are playing around on the piano and come up with a melody, write the music, and then come up with lyrics to match.

I personally have tried doing the music first ( i'm big on classical which has no lyrics, so that may be a reason), but imo the music is a lot harder than the lyrics. I'm in awe at how some big name writers can put out so many billboard topping hits, and I have trouble coming up with even a catchy melody that hasn't been done before.

Maybe try out both methods and see which you like? Lyrics first, then music, and then do a song with music first and then lyrics.

Good luck.

christ-on-a-stick

Thanks Magus

I am leaning that way; trying out out both ways and figuring out what feels "right".

Back to the piano...

freemonkey

I haven't done it seriously for some time..... I don't really write music in the strictest sense, but when I think of a lyric, I'm also usually thinking it with a melody line. I'll then sing it to the hubby, who puts chords around the melody. And then it begins to evolve. I have written a couple songs all by myself, and it usually happens words & music all at once for me.

RevDahlia

Wise words from the Magster.

I am not (much of) a musician but the hubby is, and he has good advice which I'll quote here.

"don't ever feel you have to sit down and crank out a song beginning-to-end. i'm a believer in the Junk Drawer approach to songwriting. the Junk Drawer contains good lines and good licks, and mediocre lines that might improve once you tinker with them, and that bridge you wrote for that one song that didn't quite fit but that you still like, and so on. if you come up with anything that strikes your fancy, even if it's wrong for what you're working on right now, stick it in the Junk Drawer and dig it up later. spend a lot of time noodling around, digging int he Junk drawer and adding things to it, and sooner or later something will get born. i'm not a very disciplined songwriter so YMMV."

Don Alhambra

I haven't written music in a while, but every now and then I'll go back to the keyboard and crank out a song or three. The way used to do it when I was trying to learn how to write music (back in the day when I was 15 and had time to mess ariound on the piano for hours on end!) I experimented with a number of different techniques.

Usually I write the music first and then the lyrics, if I'm writing a pop type song. This is simply because I find it much easier to fit words to music than the other way around! With a bit of shoving you can usually get things to rhyme or scan the way you want them without sounding too crappy.

However recently I've been giving some thought to writing an operetta, and in this case it's really important to get some of the lyrics down first, simply because unlike in a pure musical the songs have to enhance the plot development.

I guess in the end it's a question of style and preference!

cjack

I'm not really qualified to answer the other question, as the only real writing I've done is lyrics for parody songs. However, since both my job and my hobby involve creative writing, I think I can provide an answer to the above question.

I would argue against imposing a moratorium on listening to music. I would actually advise listening to more music, if its at all possible.

I think it helps in any creative endeavor to immerse yourself in whatever it is you're doing.

For example, my job (or at least part of it) is to write commercials. I listen to commercials constantly. I will actually turn the radio UP if I hear something different and creative, and it inspires me to work harder.


My hobby is stand-up comedy. Again, there's plenty of writing involved. If I have a show coming up, I'll hang around comics, watch lots of Comedy Central, go to local open mike nights, etc.

Its a bit counter-intuitive, but I've found that if I insulate myself from other influences, I wind up coming up with stuff that isn't as original as the stuff I get when I'm immersed in it.


And I wouldn't worry about not being able to come up with anything original. Anything you create will be unique, simply because its YOURS.

No one else has your perspective. Simply write about what YOU know, the way YOU want to hear it, and you'll be automatically original.

Nexus

I have always written music first then matched lyrics after. I think the most important aspect of a song is the music. If it isn't compelling and doesn't hold interest musically then the lyrics never get the opportunity to be appreciated.

Unfortunately my skill is in writing lyrics. It's both a craft and innate art for me. I only discover musical parts while playing my guitar or keyboards. The easy part for me is the lyrics. I wish it were the other way around.

If you ever want help putting lyrics to music let me know I would be happy to.

SEF

For me it is often both lyrics and music together (or so close as to be pretty much inseparable). However, the refinement and extension of each is an iterative process carried out separately to a large extent, ie a second verse to the same music and bridge/link, intro, coda or cadenza type sections being without words (or without significant vocals anyway).

Fitting music to words is part of high-level music theory exams and I always found it quite easy. However, the reverse isn't exactly difficult - more often done by people (including quite young children) as a parody. Then of course the advantage of choosing something someone knows (as well as for possibly poking fun at the original) is that you don't have to write down the music. They know it (and how the words should fit) already.

It is always going to be a matter of personal preference or circumstance though - presumably influenced by finding one or other of lyrics and music easier to do.

Godless Wonder

I'm the same way with regards to the music, it has to kick ass, or I'm not satisfied with it, and I can't just write mucic, I seem to have to sort of stumble onto it, to discover it rather than write it. I have so much trouble with the music aspect I haven't managed to actually write a song in 13 years of playing guitar , and haven't really gotten to the point of writing lyrics. If I do manage to write a song, I expect it will probably be an instrumental anyway. I suppose the composing aspect comes into play in arranging the various discovered pieces and variations of those pieces into a coherent whole, and I'm not really very good at that.

OTOH, I have occasionally come up with a guitar riff by trying to make the guitar mimic the rythym and rising/falling pattern of syllables of a sentence. That's a good way to get yourself out of the rut your fingers will try to force you into whenever you pick up a guitar.

There's a book by Douglas Hofstadter called "Le Ton Beau de Marot" which is all about translating, and specifically about translating things which are inherently resistant to translation, like double entendres, poetry or lyrics. It really gives you an appreciation for what can be done with language if you really try very very hard, instead of merely trying hard enough to get something tolerable. That book made me think that with enough effort, lyrics of arbitrary meaning can be fit to any music. Music is a bit like a foreign language which I don't speak, I struggle mightily just to conjure up something tolerable. English is my native language, so, to me it seems like it ought to be easier to mold the English to fit than to mold the music, especially if I tried as hard on the lyrics as I'm forced to try on the music.