thief of fire

Yes, just handwave away the thousands and thousands of example that don't suit you.

I didn't say it wasn't kosher. If you stop provocatively misrepresenting me I'll consider replying but while you do it, I've got better things to do

thief of fire

Yes it is.
Yes you do.
You're not capable of judging your own work

stephan huller

Sorry for getting in the middle of this circle jerk but let me say that I hadn't noticed how odd the λεγομενος is in Matthew 1:16. It's even stranger that the use in Josephus. It has to be related. How else can this be explained?

stephan huller

There is a similar use in Justin:

And his son, who alone is authoritatively called son [ο μονος λεγομενος κυριως υιος], the word who also was with him and was begotten before the deeds, when in the beginning he created and arranged all things through him, is called Christ according to his being anointed and God arranging all things through him [Χριστος μεν κατα το κεχρισθαι και κοσμησαι τα παντα δι αυτου τον θεον λεγεται], this name itself also holding an unknown significance, in like manner as the appellation God is not a name, but rather an opinion impressed in the nature of men of a matter that cannot be explicated. [Justin Apology 2.6.3]

I think it goes to the heart of the common use of λεγομενος in Josephus and Matthew. Christians used this word in a special way. I don't think it meant 'so-called' in Josephus. This is just assumed because the author is thought to be Josephus. λεγομενος is being used in a special way, sort of an early Christian creed.

thief of fire

Yes, no one ever used λεγομενος ever, in any context.
Must have been the macoroni-ites.

spin

What a vacuous response from someone who seems incapable of mustering evidence for his statements.

stephan huller

It's not being used like this:

Εν τοις νοθοις κατατεταχθω και των Παυλου πραξεων η γραφη, ο τε λεγομενος ποιμην, και η αποκαλυψις Πετρου

This is the standard usage. I think it is used in Matthew in a special way. Almost to say 'we humans can't understand what Christ means.' It is beyond our comprehension. Something more than even a messiah. A mysterious process. 'More than mere physical anointing.'

spin

Could you elucidate this, Stephan? What makes λεγομενος much different from καλουμενος?

Mt 4:8 talks of σιμονα τον λεγομενον πετρον.

stephan huller

That's not the point. You'd expect a Christian to say 'Jesus the Christ.' It would be like if I said 'Lisa my so-called wife.' It's odd.

stephan huller

It's also used nowhere else in the gospels or the NT in relation to Jesus. It's just odd.