aa5874

Again, you ignore evidence. Please read gMark. The obvious difference between gMark and John does not remove the fact that the author of Mark introduced Jesus as divine, as the son of God and that in the last verses of the same gMark Jesus rose from the dead.

1. The author of Mark presented Jesus as divine from the very 1st verse.

Mark 1:1 - 2. It is evident that Jesus in gMark did display supernatural abilities, he transfigured and brought dead prophets, Moses and Elijah, to life.


Mark 9.2-7 3. If it is your view that Jesus became divine after the baptism, then that still means that Jesus was presented as god and man by the author of Mark. It will be noticed that he must have become a full-blown supernatural entity when he resurrected.

And further, the baptism of Jesus is virtually the beginning of gMark's Jesus story.[quote]

Mark 1:11 - Mark 16:6 -
4. Again from the very first verse, Jesus was presented as the son of God.

Mark 3:11 -
Mark 5:7 -

Mark 2:5 -
Mark 2:7 -
Mark 9:31 -
Mark 14.28
Mark 16:6 -
It should be obvious also that the author of gMark did not write about the birth of Jesus.

Which birth story would he have used, the one found in Matthew, Luke or John?

If he claimed Jesus was born from normal production, from sexual union, by Joseph and Mary he would have been deemed an heretic.

The gospel of gMark was not considered heresy by Irenaeus in Against Heresies.

Look at Against Heresies 26.

The teachings of Cerinthus deemed to be an heretic.
It should also be noted that the church writers claimed that gMark is actually Peter's memoirs of Jesus, the son of God.
The mere fact that gMark was canonised is evidence alone that it wasaccepted by the church or even written by them to reflect a god/man.

You must not ignore evidence within gMark or externally that show Jesus was presented as a god/man compatible or consistent with the other authors of the Gospels.

Clivedurdle

Why isn't Josephus's Egyptian Jesus?

razlyubleno

aa, you're confusing me. I need you to clarify what your position is; I need you to tell me what you don't agree with.

Here again, are the 6 things that I believe to be true. Please tell me which of these you are taking issue with:

(i) Mark did not consider Jesus divine to begin with;
(ii) For Mark, Jesus lived most of his life as simply a very pious man;
(iii) Only at the moment of his baptism did Jesus take on divine properties;
(iv) But at no point did Mark present Jesus as God.

(v) John presents Jesus as being divine prior to his baptism;
(vi) John also presents Jesus as the Logos made flesh, as somehow being on a par with God himself.

I will deal with whatever evidence you like. But first you need to clarify what it is you disagree with. Do you agree with any of those 6 points? If so, which ones?

razly

GakuseiDon

His position is: Regardless of what you say -- regardless of ANY position you take -- he will disagree with you. (Sometimes the only way to win a battle is not to fight.)

razlyubleno

Actually, I'm curious about something... perhaps you could tell me: has aa ever changed his mind about anything? Ever?

razly

GakuseiDon

I don't know, I have him on ignore.

aa5874

It is most laughable when a person egages in a conversation or a discussion, with ear muffs on.

Most absurd.

And, they know what I say. I have proven it.

Just think about it. Don't they all read the posts of others who reply to me.

In effect, they are all reading my posts hoping and praying that I will make some error.

razlyubleno

Consider it a case of turning the lawn mower off while one is trying to listen to Beethoven.

You have proven very little so far. And you still need to clarify your position. I provided you with a multiple-choice question; all you need to do is circle the relevant options, so that those people who don't have you on ignore might know what you're trying to say.

razly

aa5874

I think you have it wrong. I have all the proof or information to support my position.

You are the one who have questions that perhaps you yourself cannot even answer

My position is clear. The author of gMark presented a god/man. In Against Heresies by Irenaeus, the Jesus found in gMark was never considered only human like the so-called heretic Cerinthus.

Irenaeus did write about the gospel called Mark .


Against Heresies 3.1.1
Mark's Jesus was a god/man compatipble with the authors of the Gospel based on the church writings.

razlyubleno

Self-confidence is not proof. And I simply won't entertain further discussion of this until such a time as you answer my very simple question. I placed my position in what was almost formal logic, asked you to point out which link in my chain of logic was faulty. But seeing as you cannot do this for me, I have no idea what your specific issue is, since you wander endlessly off-topic as if you are pathologically allergic to simple a->b->c discussion.

You really need to learn to stop muddling your terminology, and to allow for dichotomies whereby a word can have different meanings to different people, rather than living with this dichotomy between truth and fiction that has no bearing on the subjective beliefs of each individual.

razly