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Old 11-24-2007, 07:08 AM   #151
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Here is the French of the relevant portions of John Ibn Saba. Note how our old friends Feridoun and Bandaritos from Ms. 142 reappear!

---

Dans la suite, le peuple oublia le Seigneur son Dieu, et adora les idoles, en disant qu'elles étaient les médiatrices entre lui et les esprits des astres.

CHAPITRE XIX -- De la secte des Sabéens, adorateurs des astres.

Le peuple retournait * la secte des Sabéens qui adoraient les astres. Car l'appel * ce culte avait été lancé antérieurement par quelques grands personnages.

Parmi ceux-ci, il y eut Féridoun qui adorait Mercure ('Ot*rid). Il lui présentait des offrandes, immolait des victimes * son esprit et lui faisait brûler de l'encens, tellement que cet esprit descendit jusqu'* lui sous la forme d'une étincelle de feu et lui adressa la parole. Féridoun dit au peuple qui l'entourait ce que cet esprit lui avait dit: «Je te donnerai la puissance, la grandeur et la direction des affaires aux yeux des hommes. Je pourvoirai * tes besoins et * ceux de mes sectateurs, si eux et toi, vous faites tout ce que je vous commanderai, si vous m'offrez des victimes, des oblations et de l'encens.»

Semblablement, l'esprit de Saturne (Zohal) apparut * un personnage nommé Zoroastre (Zarâdacht). La doctrine de celui-ci s'étant répandue dura mille cinq cents ans. Il envoya en mission soixante-dix hommes sur lesquels étaient descendus soixante-dix esprits issus de l'esprit de Saturne et qui conviaient les gens au culte de cet astre. Zoroastre leur dit * l'heure de sa mort: «Si vous ne mangez mon corps et ne buvez mon sang, vous n'aurez pas de part au salut.» Après son trépas, ses disciples firent donc bouillir son corps et burent de cette eau trouble. Il obtint ainsi l'accomplissement de ce qu'il leur avait dit.

Il en va de même pour Benderitous né des deux esprits de la lune et de Jupiter (Al'Mochtari): il est le roi des talismans; il est le premier qui ait enseigné aux hommes la magie, la sorcellerie, l'astrologie, la science de la magie blanche, la science des choses cachées et qui ait mentionné en réalité les conjonctions des sphères célestes et toutes les manières dont les hommes sont entrés en rapport avec elles, en rendant un culte aux astres et en cherchant * faire descendre leurs esprits.

Satan conseilla de fabriquer des idoles qui serviraient d'intermédiaires entre les hommes et les esprits des astres. Il résida dans ces idoles et, de leur intérieur, parla aux gens, attribuant ce qu'il disait aux esprits des astres. Cette dernière erreur était pire que la première, car tous les anciens crurent ainsi * l'action des esprits des astres et s'habituèrent * leur rendre un culte pour subvenir * leurs besoins. Ces influences se propagèrent parmi les hommes pendant de longs siècles, tandis que s'étendait l'appel de ceux qui s'attribuaient la divinité dans ce inonde. Le nom de [Benderitous] fut si grand parmi les philosophes qu'ils croyaient que tout ce qu'ils faisaient n'était accompli que par la glorification du nom des astres et grâce aux offrandes qu'ils leur faisaient et * l'adoration de leurs noms.

De leur puissance sur les âmes, ces idées laissèrent des traces innombrables. Leurs principes s'imprimèrent dans les intelligences, et leurs traces se fixèrent au plus intime des âmes, leur tenant lieu, pour croire en leurs paroles et se vouer au culte de leurs divinités, des signes évidents et des miracles les plus extraordinaires. C'est qu'ils voyaient comment ils unissaient les forces astrales avec les éléments simples dans des formes particulières et des devoirs particuliers. Et il résulta de ces formes des suites étranges qui stupéfiaient les intelligences humaines. C'est ainsi par exemple qu'ils faisaient une figure avec telle pierre sous tel horoscope, sur une vallée infestée de lions et aucun lion absolument ne passait plus dans ce lieu. Ils agissaient pareillement pour éloigner les bêtes féroces, les oiseaux, les vipères, les insectes, etc., d'après l'enseignement qu'ils avaient reçu des esprits astraux dont nous avons parlé. Sur les trésors remplis d'argent et de pierreries diverses ils construisaient des engins sous la forme d'épées, de bêtes féroces, de flaques d'eau ou de vipères; et personne ne pouvait en approcher en dehors de ceux qui avaient leurs connaissances. En fait de talismans, d'enchantements et des services qu'ils obtenaient du démon, ils faisaient ce que la langue est impuissante * exprimer.

Aristote avait fait pareilles choses pour Alexandre, lorsque celui-ci se rendit dans le pays de la Perse, et il nous faut raconter cela. «Sache, ô roi, dit Aristote, que la Perse est une contrée immense dans laquelle il y a des déserts sans eau et inhabités. Comme ton armée est nombreuse, tu as besoin de talismans qui t'aideront * atteindre ton but et faciliteront tes grandes entreprises. Tu feras donc un coffre de fer dans lequel tu placeras ton elligie en fer, ainsi que les effigies en fer de ton armée montée sur des chevaux de fer. Tu feras aussi des effigies en plomb de tes ennemis dont chacun portera, dans une main, une épée de plomb recourbée en arrière sur le revers de la main, et, dans l'autre main, une lance de plomb, la pointe en bas; * chacun d'eux tu donneras un arc dont la corde sera brisée. Tu placeras, entre l'armée et le coffre, un rideau de fer; puis tu offriras un sacrifice et de l'encens * Benderîtous, roi des talismans, tu le glorifieras et l'exalteras le plus possible. Tu porteras ce coffre avec toi dans tm armée partout où tu camperas, partout où tu iras; toutes les fois que tu feras une étape, tu placeras le coffre dans ta main et nul n'y touchera, si ce n'est toi. Ainsi, toi et les tiens, vous serez en sécurité contre les ruses de l'ennemi, contre ses embûches, contre ses tromperies et contre les stratagèmes qu'il emploiera contre toi avec toute sa force terrestre. ---- Tu feras un autre talisman destiné * faire couler des fontaines dans les déserts sans eau. Par ce moyen, tu auras des sources jaillissantes dans les déserts desséchés; tu pourras te désaltérer, ainsi que ton armée et les bêtes de somme.»

Voyant que l'intelligence des hommes se laissait entraîner au culte d'autres dieux que lui et qu'ils étaient accoutumés * ne regarder que les choses sensibles et visibles, comme il ne voulait que leur salut dans l'abondance de sa miséricorde et de sa compassion, Dieu (qu'il soit glorifié!) résolut de ramener * lui les intelligences par les objets qui leur étaient familiers et il opposa aux œuvres de Satan attribuées aux esprits sidéraux, des œuvres pareilles dérivées progressivement de sa miséricorde. Il opposa * la flamme qui, provenant de l'esprit de Saturne, s'était montrée * Féridoun et * sa troupe et avait dit: «Je vous donnerai la puissance et la force et je pourvoirai * vos besoins,» la flamme qu'il montra * Moïse dans le buisson incombustible. Quand Moïse se fut dirigé vers lui, il entendit la voix de Dieu qui lui criait: Je suis le Dieu de tes pères, le Dieu d'Abraham, le Dieu d'Isaac et le Dieu de Jacob.

---- Il en fut de même pour Zoroastre, lorsque dans les soixante-dix hommes établis par lui résidèrent les soixante-dix esprits provenant de l'esprit de Saturne et engageant les hommes * lui rendre un culte. Le Christ, Fils éternel, personne divine, Verbe, envoya pareillement soixante-dix disciples pour exhorter les hommes * croire en lui et il leur dit: Guérissez les malades, ressuscitez les morts, purifiez les lépreux, chassez les démons. Vous avez reçu gratis, donnez gratis.

CHAPITRE XX -- Les signes de Dieu mis en opposition avec les signes attribués aux étoiles.

Dieu mit ensuite en opposition l'arche recouverte de feuilles d'or, contenant les tables de pierre écrites par son doigt, avec le coffre de fer qu'Aristote avait fabriqué pour Alexandre contre ses ennemis du désert. Moïse et Aaron établirent pour l'arche des prêtres, en regard de ceux qui étaient destinés au service de ce coffre. Moïse frappa la terre avec son bâton et l'eau jaillit de douze fontaines, en opposition avec les talismans qui, dans le désert, avaient fait jaillir des eaux pour Alexandre.

Ainsi, la verge de Moïse accomplissait ce qui correspondait * toutes les choses attribuées aux esprits sidéraux, parce que le genre humain n'était habitué qu'aux actes tombant sous les sens. Quand Dieu (qu'il soit glorifié!) avait vu que les intelligences humaines étaient entraînées * un autre culte que le sien et qu'elles n'étaient habituées qu'aux choses sensibles et visibles, il envoya son Esprit-Saint sur les sages, avant la venue de la Loi; après les sages, vinrent la Loi et les Prophètes.

CHAPITRE XXI -- Des sages établis pour prophétiser sur N.-S. le Christ ET DE LEURS PAROLES.

Parmi les sages, il en est un qui, parlant conformément * la sagesse, a dit: «Il faut que l'homme applique son âme * la justice et * la pureté et qu'il la dépouille de toutes les souillures. En agissant de cette manière, il se dispose * connaître le nom de six lettres et * voir le Verbe, fils de Dieu, qui n'a pas souffert et qui a souffert.»

Commentaire de ces paroles. ---- Ces mots: «Il se dispose * connaître le nom composé de six lettres» désignent le nom du Messie qui contient a l m s î h: voil* bien six lettres. Quant * ces autres mots: «Il verra le Verbe, fils de Dieu, qui n'a pas souffert et qui a souffert», [il faut remarquer que] le Messie tire ce nom de deux sources différentes, l'une sa divinité, l'autre son humanité; ces deux sources forment ensemble un Messie unique et un Seigneur unique. Le Messie a souffert, pendant son crucifiement, dans son humanité, mais il n'a pas souffert dans sa divinité. Il est devenu alors le Messie unique, comme l'a prophétisé, par une inspiration de l'Esprit de sagesse ou Esprit-Saint, le sage en question, quand il a dit qu'il a souffert et qu'il n'a pas souffert.

Nason (N*soun) le sage a dit aussi: «Le Père a parlé le premier, quand il a envoyé au monde son Fils par sa volonté. Celui-ci est la voix du Père, son Verbe unique. »
Iloun le sage a dit: «Le Fils très grand de Dieu viendra revêtu de la chair et ressemblera sur la terre aux mortels.»

Porphyre (Barfounîs) le sage a dit: «La lumière, l'intelligence substantielle, lorsqu'elle sera sortie et descendue, remontera; c'est une lumière qui resterait inaccessible, si elle ne descendait pas dans le monde.»

Batarn*tis le sage a dit: «Ainsi le Verbe est Dieu, il a tout dans sa main. Quand il fut descendu du ciel et se fut revêtu de la chair, il fît paraître son humanité et manifesta sa grandeur. De plus, il est Dieu, comme il l'avait toujours été avant sa venue.»

Ormuz le sage a dit: «Le Verbe [vient] du Père principe. Quand il naquit étant déj* parfait en lumière, il n'obtint pas un complément dans sa nature. Il est fils et agent clans sa descente [sur terre]; son incarnation d'une vierge [résulte] de l'ombre de l'eau.»

Manès (Mani) le sage a dit: «Lorsque paraîtra et descendra sur la terre le feu qui existe avant les ténèbres, lorsqu'il se montrera dans un corps terrestre, beaucoup de gens ne le comprendront pas. Il s'en retournera ensuite et remontera dans son premier séjour dont la gloire est sublime.»

La sage Sabla a dit: «A la sixième époque, se lèvera un roi puissant qui verra dans le ciel le signe de la croix sur laquelle Dieu, fils de Dieu, doit être suspendu. Dans la région de l'est on verra Dieu dont la mère n'aura pas connu d'homme. Un roi lui tiendra tête qui sera incapable de se sauver lui-même et tuera les jeunes enfants * cause de celui qui sera né dans une ville de Juda.»

Ormuz le sage a dit: «Une étoile, sortie du levant, marchera de l'Orient vers l'Occident, pendant deux ans et demi, puis retournera * son poste: ce sera l'étoile de la bonne nouvelle. Elle marchera devant les sages qui viendront de l'Orient vers le Roi éternel pour l'adorer et lui offrir leurs présents. A cause de lui, les petits enfants seront massacrés, et cela, après cent quatre-vingt-trois révolutions du vieux Saturne (Kaiwân).»

Commentaire de ce passage. ---- Quant * Kaiwân al-'Atîq, c'est la planète de Saturne (Zohal). Elle est appelée 'Atîq, parce que c'est la première des sphères célestes de haut en bas. Elle traverse le ciel dans une révolution qui dure trente ans. Si l'on multiplie trente par cent quatre-vingt-trois on obtient 5490 années; et dans les dix années qui complètent les 5500 ans de l'âge du monde parut Notre-Seigneur le Christ dans la chair, comme l'avaient annoncé les autres prophètes et sages.

Platon a dit dans le Livre des Mystères: «Le Très-Haut paraîtra sur la terre; il ressuscitera les morts et manifestera ses signes divins. Puis il retournera * son trône redoutable et on ne le verra plus jusqu'au jour du grand jugement.»

Aristote a dit clans son livre intitulé Trésor des Trésors: «Le trésor de la vie réside dans le Dieu Adonaï qui paraîtra dans l'univers habité. Ceux qui sont dans les tombeaux entendront sa voix et ressusciteront.»
Telles sont les indications contenues dans les paroles des sages.

CHAPITRE XXII -- Les prédictions des Prophètes concernant la venue DE NOTRE-SEIGNEUR LE CHRIST (a LUI LA GLOIRE!).
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Old 11-26-2007, 08:28 AM   #152
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Thanks for this Roger

It is very interesting that Manes/Mani is listed among the sages a little later on.

Andrew Criddle
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:32 AM   #153
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It is also interesting that the version of the Zoroaster story found in John ibn Saba and Ms 142 appears to be secondary to the form found in Ms. 481 and S

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Old 11-26-2007, 10:02 AM   #154
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Interesting -- what makes you think so? (I've not thought about it yet).
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:49 AM   #155
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Translation of Ibn-Saba:

Next, the people forgot the Lord their God, and worshipped idols, while saying that they were the mediators between them and the spirits of the stars.

CHAPTER XIX -- On the sect of the Sabaeans, worshippers of the stars.

The people returned to the sect of the Sabaeans who worshipped the stars. For the call to this worship had been launched earlier by some important personages.

Among these was Feridoun who worshipped Mercury ('Otêrid). He presented him with offerings, sacrificed victims to his spirit and burned incense to him, so that this spirit descended upon him in the form of a spark of fire and spoke to him. Feridoun said to the people that surrounded him what this spirit had said to him: "I will give you power, greatness and the direction of affairs in the eyes of the men. I will provide for your needs and for those of my worshippers, if they and you, you do all that I will order you, if you offer me victims, oblations and incense."

Similarly, the spirit of Saturn (Zohal) appeared to a man named Zoroaster (Zarâdacht). His doctrine has been spread for one thousand five hundred years. He sent out on a mission seventy men on whom seventy spirits coming from the spirit of Saturn had come down and who invited the people to the worship of this star. Zoroaster said to them in the hour of his death: "If you do not eat my body and do not drink my blood, you will have no part in salvation." After his demise, his disciples did therefore boil his body and drank of this turbid fluid. He thus obtained the accomplishment of what he had said to them.

It was the same for Benderitous, born from the two spirits of the moon and Jupiter (Al'Mochtari) : he is the king of talismans; he is the first that taught magic to men, sorcery, astrology, the knowledge of white magic, the knowledge of hidden things and who mentioned in reality the conjunctions of the celestial spheres and all the ways in which men can make contact with them, rendering worship to the stars and seeking to make their spirits descend.

Satan suggested making idols that would serve as an intermediary between men and the spirits of the stars. He resided in these idols and, from their interior, spoke with the people, attributing what he said to the spirits of the stars. This last error was worse than the first, for all the ancients believed because of the action of the spirits of the stars and accustomed themselves to render them worship to provide for their needs. These influences propagated themselves among men for long centuries, while the appeal spread of those who attributed to themselves the divinity in this world. The name of [Benderitous] was so great among the philosophers that they believed that all that they did was accomplished only by the glorification of the name of the stars and thanks to the offerings that they made to them and to the adoration of their names.

Because of their power over minds, these ideas left innumerable tracks. Their principles imprinted themselves on the intelligent, and their traces affixed themselves most intimately, holding their place, believing in their words and devoting themselves to the worship of their divinities, with evident signs and the most extraordinary miracles. This is how they saw that might unite the astral forces with ordinary elements in special forms and special duties. And it resulted from this strange consequences that stunned human intelligence. This is thus for example that they made a figure with this rock under such a horoscope, in a valley infested with lions and absolutely no lion would any longer pass through this place. They similarly acted to drive away ferocious beasts, birds, vipers, insects, etc., according to the teaching that they had received from the astral spirits of which we spoke. On the treasuries full of money and of various gems they constructed engines in the form of a sword, or of ferocious beasts, of floods of water or of vipers; and no one could approach unless they had their knowledge. In respect of talismans, enchantments and services obtained from demons, they did what the language is powerless to express.

Aristotle did similar things for Alexander, when the latter went into the country of the Persians, and it is necessary for us to relate this. "Know, O king," said Aristotle, "that Persia is an immense region in which there are waterless and uninhabited deserts. As your army is numerous, you need talismans that will help you to attain your goal and will facilitate your great enterprises. You will carry therefore an iron coffer in which you will place your effigy in iron, as well as the effigies in iron of your army mounted on iron horses. You will carry also the effigies in lead of your enemies each of which will carry, in their hand, a sword of lead curved behind on the back of the hand, and, in the other hand, a lead lance, the point downwards; to each of them you will give a bow of which the string will be broken. You will place, between the army and the coffer, an iron curtain; then you will offer a sacrifice and incense to Benderîtous, king of talismans, you will glorify him and will exalt him the most possible. You will carry this coffer with you in your army wherever you camp, wherever you go; every step you take, you will place the coffer in your hand and no one will touch it but you. Thus, you and yours, you will be secure against the tricks of the enemy, against his pitfalls, against his deceptions and against the stratagems that he will employ against you with all his army. ---. You will carry another talisman to let fountains flow in the waterless deserts. By this means, you will have springs gushing in the dried out deserts; you will be able to quench the thirst, of both your army and all its beasts."

Seeing that the intelligence of men led them to the worship of other gods than Him and that they were accustomed to look at only the things that they could see and touch, as He wanted only their salvation in the abundance of his mercy and of his compassion, God (let him be glorified!) resolved to bring back to him these intelligences by the objects that were familiar to them and He opposed the works of Satan, attributed to sidereal spirits, by similar works derived progressively from his mercy. He opposed to the flame that, coming from the spirit of Saturn, had showed itself to Féridoun and his troop and had said: "I will give you the power and the force and I will provide for your needs," the flame that He showed to Moses in the incombustible bush. When Moses had directed himself towards Him, He heard the voice of God that cried to him: "I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob."

---. It was the same for Zoroaster, when there lived in the seventy men that he had established the seventy spirits originating from the spirit of Saturn and engaging the men to render worship to him. The Christ, the eternal Son, divine person, the Word, sent similarly seventy disciples to urge men to believe in Him and He said to them: "Heal the sick, revive the dead, purify the lepers, expel the demons. You received freely, give freely."

CHAPTER XX -- The signs of God placed in opposition to the signs attributed to the stars.

God put next in opposition the ark, covered with leaves of gold, containing the stone tablets written by his finger, with the iron coffer that Aristotle had made for Alexander against his enemies of the desert. Moses and Aaron established priests for the ark, like those that were intended for the service of this coffer. Moses struck the earth with his staff and the water of twelve fountains gushed forth, in opposition to the talismans that, in the desert, had made waters gush for Alexander.

Thus, the will of Moses accomplished what corresponded to all the things attributed to the sidereal spirits, because mankind was accustomed only to the acts that it could sense. When God (may He be glorified!) had seen that human intelligences were led to another worship than His and that they were accustomed only to the things they could sense and see, He sent His Holy Spirit on the Sages, before the coming of the Law; after the Sages, came the Law and the Prophets.

CHAPTER XXI -- On the Sages established to prophesy about Our Saviour the Christ and on their words.

Among the Sages, one of them, speaking in conformity to wisdom, said: "It is necessary that a man applies his soul to justice and purity and that he strips it of all defilement. In this manner, he disposes himself to know the name of six letters and to see the Word, the son of God, who did not suffer and who suffered."

Commentary on these words. ---. These words: "He disposes himself to know the name composed from six letters" designate the name of the Messiah that contains 'a l m s î h': i.e. six letters. According to these other words: "He will see the Word, the Son of God, who did not suffer and who suffered", [it is necessary to notice that] the Messiah pulls this name from two different sources, the one his divinity, the other his humanity; these two sources form together a single Messiah and a single Lord. The Messiah suffered, during his crucifixion, in His humanity, but He did not suffer in His divinity. He became then the single Messiah, as was prophesied, by an inspiration of the Spirit of wisdom or the Holy Spirit, the Sage in question, when he said that He suffered and that He did not suffer.

Nason (Nêsoun) the Sage said also: "The Father spoke first, when He sent to the world his Son by his will. The latter is the voice of the Father, his unique Word."

Iloun the Sage said: "The very great Son of God will come clothed in flesh and will resemble the mortal ones on earth."

Porphyry (Barfounîs) the Sage said: "The light, the substantial intelligence, when it will have come out and descended, will climb back up; this is a light that would remain inaccessible, if it did not descend into the world."

Batarnêtis the Sage said: "Thus the Word is God, He has everything in His hand. When He descended from the sky and had clothed Himself in flesh, He published his humanity and showed his magnitude. More, He is God, as He always had been before his coming."

Ormuz the Sage said: "The Word [comes] from the first Father. When He was born being already perfect in light, He obtained not a complement in his nature. He is son and agent in his descent [on earth]; his incarnation of a virgin [results] from the shadow on the water."

Manes (Mani) the Sage said: "When the fire that exists before the darkness appears and descends on the earth, when He shows Himself in an earthly body, a lot of people will not understand it. He will return then and will climb back up to his first position of which the glory is sublime."

The Sage Sabla said: "Inthe sixth era, a powerful king will arise who will see in the sky the sign of the cross on which God, son of God, must be suspended. In the east a God will be seen whose mother will not have known man. A king will raise his head who will be incapable to save himself and will kill the young children because of the one that will have been born in a city of Judah."

Ormuz the Sage said: "A star, rising in the east, will travel from the East towards the West, for two years and a half, then will return to his post: this will be the star of the good news. It will travel before the sages that will come from the East towards the eternal King to worship him and to offer him their presents. Because of him, little children will be slaughtered, and that, after hundred eighty-three revolutions of the old Saturn (Kaiwân).”

Commentary on this passage. ---. According to Kaiwân Al-' Atîq, this is the planet of Saturn (Zohal). It is called 'Atîq, because this is the first of the celestial spheres from the top down. It crosses the sky in a revolution that lasts thirty years. If one multiplies thirty by hundred eighty-three one obtains 5490 years; and in the ten years that complete the 5500 years of the age of the world appeared Our Lord the Christ in the flesh, as the other prophets and sages had announced.

Plato said in the Book of the Mysteries: "The Most High will appear on the earth; He will revive the dead and will manifest his divine signs. Then He will return to his redoubtable throne and will be seen no more until the day of the great judgement."

Aristotle said in his book entitled the Treasure of Treasures: "The treasure of life lies in the God Adonaï who will appear in the world in which we live. Those who are in their tombs will hear his voice and will revive."

Such are the indications contained in the words of the Sages.

CHAPTER XXII -- The predictions of the Prophets concerning the coming of our Lord the Christ (to Him the Glory!) OUR LORD THE CHRIST.
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Old 11-27-2007, 10:48 AM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Pearse View Post
Interesting -- what makes you think so? (I've not thought about it yet).
We have two contexts for the Zoroaster quote.

Context 1 is part of a list of supposed pagan predictions/prophecies/foreshadowings of Christ.

Context 2 is part of a denunciation of astral magic and demonic parodies of Christianity.

Context 1 is in its origins pre-Islamic, it is originally Greek but has been expanded within the Syriac and other Eastern churches. Its early forms such as the Theosophia already use (pseudo)-Zoroastrian material.

Context 2 is post-Islamic found only in non-Greek sources and appears to be related to Islamic-period polemics against the Sabaeans.

Context 2 is later than Context 1; and importantly the Ibn-Saba material in chapters 19 and 20 which is context 2 material is followed in chapter 21 with context 1 material.

IE an important witness to the Zoroaster quote in Context 2 has clearly drawn heavily from context 1 material.

AFAIK the witnesses to the Zoroaster quote in Context 1 show no other signs of familiarity with Context 2 material.

Andrew Criddle
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:39 AM   #157
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That seems well-thought out -- thank you. I agree. So context 2 is the use of context 1 material combined with other Arabic-period legendary material, then.

Images of the two manuscripts of al-Majdalus from Lebanon are on their way to me. I will then seek a translator.

I've also obtained the articles on these "Sayings of the philosophers" collections footnoted by Graf:

On the existence of such prophecies see A.Delatte, Le déclin de la Legende des VII Sages et les prophéties theosophiques, in Le Musée belge 27 (1923) 97-111.

Without referring to this publication, the immense quantity of important texts and their mutual relationship is examined by A. von Premerstein, Griechisch-heidnische Weissagungen über christliche Lehre in Handschriften und Kirchenmalereien {=Greek pagan prophecies about Christian doctrine in manuscripts and church paintings}, in Festschrift der Nationalbibliothek in Wien, 1926, pp. 647-666.
I'm scanning and translating these, although it may be a weekend or two yet. Delatte looks interesting, relating the collection to the legend of the Seven Sages.
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:42 AM   #158
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I have a chunk of pages from Theodore bar Koni (in French) here, temporarily. This includes all of book 11 (the heresy catalogue) and all the mentions of Zoroaster elsewhere in the Book of scholia.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:26 AM   #159
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I've put out an offer to pay $150 for a transcription into Arabic and translation into English of the entire text in Ms. Mingana 142 (about 28 small pages). I don't know if that is too much or too little, but let's see what responses I get.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:13 AM   #160
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I now have a translator for the text from Ms. Mingana 142. I hope that we will have a translation of it by the end of January.
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