EGGO

America's history books for one.
The nazi propganda towards other people could be another example.

EGGO

Are you saying that God knowingly created a whole bunch of us just so we can go to hell? And the people who and only who (correctly) worshipped him will go to heaven?

God is seeming to become more like Hitler everyday. At least Hitler was kind enough to give specifics on what needs to be done.

Cross Examiner

Is self-determination not a great good?

Knowledge of God precedes acknowledgement of His acts, worship etc. If a man does not will to know God here, he won't there (not freely at least). Sensing the familiar objection, I'lll add that some do want to know God and have searched but have not yet found Him. Others, based upon what they currently think they know, are quite confident that He is not and therefore see no profit in either searching Him out or seeking the knowledge of the believer. For the former, as a starting point, I'd ask:

where have you looked for God?
what have you read?
how have you looked for God?

For the latter, I'd say they'll have exactly what they will themselves to have with regards to God. Nothing more. Nothing less. We can drill down onto specifics if need be.

edit: didn't see this at first:

No. God knowingly created a bunch of people to decide whether they wanted to come to know Him or not. For those that choose 'not,' these are yet afforded their desired pleasures in this life, and the consolation in the next that 'at least they did it [their] way.' All, however, still play a part in the working out of God's sovereign plan.

Regards,
BGic

Hopeful Monsters

This just sounds deeply unhappy. We are not on trial in our lives. Why can't we just stop punishing ourselves and taunting each other with meaningless, utterly groundless thoughts like these? WHY?

WHAT IS THE AGENDA?

And don't say 'God' or 'Christ' - because that is not the agenda.

NOW - WHAT IS THE AGENDA? Hmmm?

WHAT?

Cross Examiner

There was a time when I did not know God. That was unhappy. You'd also be in a good position to judge if you had known both states.

Of course not. We are here to 'bang on de drum all day' until we die. That should be enough for anyone. There can't possibly be any lasting point to this finite experience.

You can. Rather than 'punish' yourself by pondering these things with an imbecilic Christian you could be out grabbing all the gusto of life. Carpe diem! You could vow to do this from this day forth to the day you die. Of course, I'd bet that your thoughts are drawn once again, one day or another, to these sorts of 'utterly groundless thoughts' � for no apparently useful biological reason. Then again, you don't have to worry about this Christian nonsense, its patently false

Regards,
BGic

Hopeful Monsters

That's ok - you just go around in a spiral of mumbo jumbo for the remainder of your life if that's what comforts you.

But you DIDN'T TELL ME WHAT THE REAL AGENDA IS DID YOU?

READ MY POST AGAIN AND ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION.

Dargo

This is a bit off topic, but how could a god who craves human worship and expects us to worship only him, hide from us? Especially if some people deny his existence and most people are worshiping the wrong god or gods. This would be like an egotistical human celebrity hiding from his or her adoring fans. Fading stars sometimes do all sorts of pathetic stunts in an effort to regain the lime light. Yet god doesn't lift a finger to remind humans he exists. It just doesn't make any sense. That's why we can safely conclude if there are any gods, they don't need or care about our worship.

premjan

yes, this is exactly why religion exists: because God doesn't care and plays hard-to-get.

Cross Examiner

Relax, friend. That word is offensive to many on this side of the Pond -- there is no need. Also, you only added this bit about 'agenda' at:

"Last edited by TruthIsTold on October 7, 2003 at 08:02 AM"

and I had already created my response by then. So, don't try to pawn this off as if I am ducking something when you only added it late in the game. Anyway, that aside, I am at a loss to answer your question. You assume that I have a 'real agenda' or something. That I am being dishonest? Do you typically assume such things about people you have never met? I am being as transparent as I know how. I have no hidden 'agenda.' Then, I've never been one to buy into conspiracy theories or any of that Illuminati nonsense. If you have a serious question, then ask it. If this 'agenda' nonsense is your serious question, then the least you can do is be more specific. Leveling general accusations towards a person who you don't know from Adam is bad form. I'm finding this sort of thing all too common here of late.

livius drusus

There is no cause for all caps yelling, profane or not. You may be dissatisfied with an answer; you may get no answer at all. That is the nature of discussion.