Originally Posted by IamJoseph

A coin was discovered one month ago, dated 2900 years, and contains Hebrew alphabetical writings, with the name of a Hebrew king.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Which, if true, would be over 1,000 years after Sumerian and Egyptian writings.

Originally Posted by jpost.com

"Oldest Hebrew writing found near J'lem"

An archeologist digging at a hilltop southwest of Jerusalem believes a ceramic shard found in the ruins of an ancient town bears the oldest Hebrew inscription ever discovered.

The five lines of faded characters written 3,000 years ago, and the ruins of the fortified settlement where they were found, are indications that a powerful Jewish kingdom existed at the time of King David, says Yossi Garfinkel, the Hebrew University archeologist in charge of the new dig at Hirbet Keiyafa.

Other scholars are hesitant to embrace Garfinkel's interpretation of the finds, made public on Thursday.

The shard is now kept in a university safe while philologists translate it, a task expected to take months. But several words have already been tentatively identified, including ones meaning "judge," "slave" and "king."

The Israelites were not the only ones using proto-Canaanite characters, and other scholars suggest it is difficult - perhaps impossible - to conclude the text is Hebrew and not a related language spoken in the area at the time.

Garfinkel bases his identification on a three-letter verb from the inscription meaning "to do," a word he said existed only in Hebrew.

"That leads us to believe that this is Hebrew, and that this is the oldest Hebrew inscription that has been found," he said.

Other prominent biblical archeologists warned against jumping to conclusions.

Hebrew University archeologist Amihai Mazar said the inscription was "very important," as it is the longest proto-Canaanite text ever found. But he suggested that calling the text Hebrew might be going too far.

"It's proto-Canaanite," he said. "The differentiation between the scripts, and between the languages themselves in that period, remains unclear."

If Garfinkel's claim is borne out, it would bolster the case for the Old Testament's accuracy by indicating the Israelites could record events as they happened.


While the site could be useful to scholars, archeologist Yisrael Finkelstein of Tel Aviv University urged adhering to the strict boundaries of science.

Finkelstein, who has not visited the dig but attended a presentation of the findings, warned against what he said was a "revival in the belief that what's written in the Bible is accurate like a newspaper."

That style of archeology was favored by 19th century European diggers who trolled the Holy Land for physical traces of biblical stories, their motivation and methods more romantic than scientific.

"This can be seen as part of this phenomenon," Finkelstein said.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet

Quote:

"When the Phoenician alphabet was first uncovered in the 19th century, its origins were unknown. Scholars at first believed that the script was a direct variation of Egyptian hieroglyphs. This idea was especially popular due to the recent decipherment of hieroglyphs. However, scholars could not find any link between the two writing systems. Certain scholars hypothesized ties with Hieratic, Cuneiform, or even an independent creation, perhaps inspired by some other writing system. The theories of independent creation ranged from the idea of a single man conceiving it to the Hyksos people forming it from corrupt Egyptian.

Originally Posted by Annotations on the Four Gospels By Heneage Elsley, J Elsley 1799

The Hebrew language has been delivered down to us in two different characters, or forms of letters: in the present Hebrew Character in the Bible, called also the Assyrian or Chaldee, and in the letters used in the Samaritan Pentateuch; which work is no more than the five books of the law in the Hebrew language; but written in the Samaritan, otherwise named the Phoenician or Canaanite character. It is strongly contested by the learned, in which of these characters to law was originally written. The prevailing opinion is that it was written in the Samaritan and changed by Ezra into the Assyrian or present Hebrew letter: and this, that the Jews, accustomed to that form of letters in Chaldaea, might, on their return from Babylon, the more easily read the law.

Originally Posted by Petergdi

I think you will agree that it is hard to square the Wikipedia article with this excerpt from a 1799 book.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

I only brought up that issue because IamJoseph has been bragging at the Evolution/Creation Forum, and at this forum, that the Hebrew alphabet and language are amazing. The Hebrew alphabet and language are not amazing.

It is hard to square supernatural claims in the Bible with reality.

Originally Posted by Petergdi

The quality of information you provided seems
to be bad.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Notes:

Jensen (1969) p. 256.
Jensen (1969) p. 256-258.
The Newly Discovered Phoenician Inscription, New York Times, June 15, 1855, pg. 4.
Markoe (2000) p. 111
Coulmas (1989) p. 141.
Hock and Joseph (1996) p. 85.
Daniels (1996) p. 94-95.
Semitic script dated to 1800 BC
Fischer (2003) p. 68-69.
Jensen (1969) p. 262.
Jensen (1969) p. 262-263.
http://unicode.org/charts/PDF/U10900.pdf
Phoenician numerals in Unicode, Systèmes numéraux

References:

Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Phoenician alphabet
Jean-Pierre Thiollet, Je m'appelle Byblos, H & D, Paris, 2005. ISBN 2 914 266 04 9
Maria Eugenia Aubet, The Phoenicians and the West Second Edition, Cambridge University Press, London, 2001.
Daniels, Peter T., et al. eds. The World's Writing Systems Oxford. (1996).
Jensen, Hans, Sign, Symbol, and Script, G.P. Putman's Sons, New York, 1969.
Coulmas, Florian, Writing Systems of the World, Blackwell Publishers Ltd, Oxford, 1989.
Hock, Hans H. and Joseph, Brian D., Language History, Language Change, and Language Relationship, Mouton de Gruyter, New York, 1996.
Fischer, Steven R., A History of Writing, Reaktion Books, 2003.
Markoe, Glenn E., Phoenicians. University of California Press. ISBN 0-520-226135 (2000) (hardback)

External links
Ancient Scripts.com (Phoenician)
Omniglot.com (Phoenician alphabet)
official Unicode standards document for Phoenician (PDF file)

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

I have not checked out my Wikipedia source, or your Christian source, but based upon past experience, I do not trust Christian sources.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

My only interest in the Hebrew alphabet and language is IamJoseph's claim that the Hebrew alphabet and language are amazing. There is nothing amazing about anything that Jews have ever done.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

You are certainly not in a postion to determine whose evidence is bad based upon only one Christian source.

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Consider the following from the end of the Wikipedia article:

<sources snipped>

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

That is pretty good documentation. What documented sources did you offer?