Mythra

Fair enough. If you're also willing to concede that someone else's rubbing their lucky amulet is what cured them.

The mind is a powerful thing.

The question is - was there some external source - like a deity or a guardian angel or a savior (or the Virgin Mary) - who reached down with their magic finger and did the healing?

And, we won't even go into the millions and millions of prayers for healings by congregations and terminally ill people that go unanswered.

Unless, of course, you're one of those who claim that God did answer. He just said "no".

Kosh

"Sometimes I thank God... <riff> ... for unanswered prayers" - Garth Brooks

That whole mindset just infuriates me. But that's another topic...

Solo

No. it's actually worse than that. He started to talk to me without me asking for anything.

JS

aperfectstranger

I've met believers who would disagree with you on that. See here for one example. I think the real question is: Where does disease and disability come from in the first place? Created by a loving god? Sometimes it occurs in-utero, other times it is genetic or caused by bacteria, Malignancies, etc. So first god would strike millions and then heal a handful I suppose, expecting to be glorified? Almost like a person setting fire to a building, then attempting to rescue some victims, leaving the others to their own fate and hoping to be hailed as a hero. Weird. :huh:

Wads4

Not much point making a pilgrimage to Lourdes or Fatima then, or appealing to the saints.

Wads4

Shifting burden of proof fallacy.

Wads4

The burden of proof applies to POSITIVE claims, ie that Jesus DID perform miracles. We don't have to prove that he did not.

Kosh

<silencio!>

Yeah, Didn't think so.

JAK1

It is different because of the imposition of information and education generally. What was viewed with superstition then and given religious twist may, today, be viewed in a different light. A total eclipse of the sun, for example, is understood today (informationally). It was not understood then. So, views change over time.

There are more Christians today than in 300 CE for example. Hence, more disagreement about virtually all doctrines which are linked to that religion. Then, there were not more than 1,000 different groups all claiming to be Christian.

You’re correct that Christians don’t agree today. But the level of doctrinal divide and the extent of doctrinal shifts expanded over time. The printing press and the Protestant Reformation (1511 CE) contributed greatly to the diversity of interpretation even about “miracle healing” which is only one of many doctrinal divides today in Christianity.

JAK

Johnny Skeptic

But we don't know how much disagreement there was during the time of Jesus. If people can make false conclusions today, then surely people during the time of Jesus could have made false conclusions too. We don't really know how many people saw Jesus perform miracles. The anonymous Gospel writers never claimed to have seen a miracle, they seldom if ever revealed their sources, and their claims were second hand at best, and possibly third hand or fourth hand.

Matthew 14:14 says "And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick", and yet, Exodus 4:11 says "And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the Lord?" Is it your position that God makes people blind, deaf, and dumb because he has compassion for them? Instead of asking God for protection from the Devil, you need to ask him to protect you from himself.

Where is God today in tangible ways?