Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-31-2005, 12:36 AM

Figure 4.4.1. Human endogenous retrovirus K (HERV-K) insertions in identical chromosomal locations in various primates

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Endogenous retroviruses provide yet another example of molecular sequence evidence for universal common descent. Endogenous retroviruses are molecular remnants of a past parasitic viral infection. Occasionally, copies of a retrovirus genome are found in its host's genome, and these retroviral gene copies are called endogenous retroviral sequences. Retroviruses (like the AIDS virus or HTLV1, which causes a form of leukemia) make a DNA copy of their own viral genome and insert it into their host's genome. If this happens to a germ line cell (i.e. the sperm or egg cells) the retroviral DNA will be inherited by descendants of the host. Again, this process is rare and fairly random, so finding retrogenes in identical chromosomal positions of two different species indicates common ancestry...
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section4.html

The only way to defeat creationism is to attack the meme on its own terms.
The search for 'irreducible complexity', unevolvable traits in living organisms, has not succeeded. The best counterargument, however, would be traits that are effectively undesignable - traits which are undeniably evidence for common descent that only a deceptive and devilish designer would intentionally fabricate.

The next time you talk with a young earther, if you have to, deal the trump card of ERV's. I only hope that there is more evidence like this.

Oxymoron · 12-31-2005, 12:45 AM

Splendid!

That leaves us free to stamp on the rest of xianity and its absurd fairy tales.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-31-2005, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oxymoron

That leaves us free to stamp on the rest of xianity and its absurd fairy tales.

No, don't make such a hasty generalization. The majority of the world's Christians find no real conflict between Scripture and common descent.
Just because young earthism is a fairy tale does not mean that Christianity itself is absurd in nature.

buckshot23 · 12-31-2005, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

No, don't make such a hasty generalization. The majority of the world's Christians find no real conflict between Scripture and common descent.
Just because young earthism is a fairy tale does not mean that Christianity itself is absurd in nature.

In this forest it is. The only religion that is tolerated is Occam's Razorism. If it fails that test then by universal decree it is absurd and false.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-31-2005, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckshot23

The only religion that is tolerated is Occam's Razorism.

The simplest explanation for the origin of the Christian faith is that the Apostles did, in fact, witness the post-resurrection Messiah. Maybe Jesus is a lesser god, maybe he is an alien in disguise, but the resurrection historically occurred.

buckshot23 · 12-31-2005, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

The simplest explanation for the origin of the Christian faith is that the Apostles did, in fact, witness the post-resurrection Messiah. Maybe Jesus is a lesser god, maybe he is an alien in disguise, but the resurrection historically occurred.

Of course I agree. Occam however doesn't allow miracles to occur.

Oxymoron · 12-31-2005, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

Just because young earthism is a fairy tale does not mean that Christianity itself is absurd in nature.

I didn't imply that it did. Xianity is absurd for a whole host of reasons.

DMC · 12-31-2005, 01:29 AM

What if God just put those HERV-K thinggies there to fool ya?

Sven · 12-31-2005, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckshot23

In this forest it is. The only religion that is tolerated is Occam's Razorism. If it fails that test then by universal decree it is absurd and false.

Strange that you don't complain if anyone (including you!) uses Occam on any other occasion - only when it cuts against your interpretation of the bible, you start to whine.

King Bowser Koopa · 12-31-2005, 02:39 AM

Rhetroviruses are my favourite proof of evolution because a) it's very simple to explain, b) it makes no reference to the fossil record or ratiometric dating (two topics that creationists often can't get past), and c) it's rock solid- How can a creationist possibly explain the fact that they share genetic markers representing an infection in their ancestry with chimps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckshot23

The only religion that is tolerated is Occam's Razorism. If it fails that test then by universal decree it is absurd and false.

Occam's Razor is necesarilly true. You can challenge it's use but you can't hope to sucessfully argue against it's validity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox Freethinker

The simplest explanation for the origin of the Christian faith is that the Apostles did, in fact, witness the post-resurrection Messiah. Maybe Jesus is a lesser god, maybe he is an alien in disguise, but the resurrection historically occurred.

This is obviously not the simplest explanation.

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12-31-2005, 12:45 AM	#2
Oxymoron Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: http://10.0.0.2/ Posts: 6,623	Splendid! That leaves us free to stamp on the rest of xianity and its absurd fairy tales.

12-31-2005, 01:29 AM	#8
DMC Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstairs Posts: 3,803	What if God just put those HERV-K thinggies there to fool ya?

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