Ebonmuse

A thought I had the other day, related to an article I'm writing for my site: was the United States the first country in the history of the world that legally mandated the separation of church and state? I can't find any source that addresses this matter explicitly, and I can't think of a counterexample, but it's always possible I've overlooked something. Can any IIDBer point me in the right direction?

Toto

This is such a common understanding that it is hard to find a source for it. Until the US was founded, all countries relied on some official religion. All European countries had monarchies and held to the divine right of kings - which was part of the reason the Declaration of Independence invoked "Nature's God".

Even in ancient Greece, which did not have much in the way of an established church, there was no formal doctrine of separation of religion and government, and the Roman Empire was very big on using religion to aid in government.

American Atheist article

http://rac.org/advocacy/issues/issuechst/

pug846

Keep in mind that at the founding, some states still had state sponsored churches. It’s a bit misleading to say that the United States was founded on church-state separation.

Malintent

All of the founding fathers and colonists were christian, no? There were puritans, protestants, etc... It seems to me that the freedom of religion clause pertained to having the freedom to choose any christian sect that you want. It did not seem (to me) to imply you had the freedom to be Budist, Jew, Atheist, etc.. At lest, that seems to be the spirit of the clause.

Jakanapes

um, nope. Quite a few were Deists and there were probably a few who would have been considered to be Agnostic or even Atheist by today's standards.

And actually, there were large numbers of Jewish colonists, especially in New Amsterdam...um, I mean New York.

From the pen of Thomas Jefferson:

"The bill for establishing religious freedom, the principles of which had, to a certain degree, been enacted before, I had drawn in all the latitude of reason and right. It still met with opposition; but, with some mutilations in the preamble, it was finally passed; and a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the: preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read, "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo, and Infidel of every denomination."

Toto

No. Some were Deists. There was a Jewish presence in colonial America, and Washington made them welcome. Jefferson and Madison clearly stated that their concept of religious liberty extended to non-Christians.

The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom ... was finally passed, ... a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, 1821

From www.positivatheism.org list of quotations.

Alter

No. If you look at the most influential of the founding fathers, approximately half were Deists or Agnostics or anti-religion. I had a list (you can search on PositiveAtheism), but it's gone in cyberspace, unfortunately!!

You can start with the signers of the DOI, plus people like Ben Franklin and Abigail Adams.

freigeister

The first legislation granting universal religious toleration was the Edict of Milan (313), enacted by Constantine the Great, the first avowedly Christian Roman Emperor.

Agemegos

No. The US didn't mandate the separation of Church and State (inasmuch as it ever did so) until the Bill of Rights was adopted on December 15 1791.

On August 26th 1789, over two years before the US Bill of Rights came into effect, the French National Assembly passed its Universal Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen into law. That bill legally mandates freedom of reigion.

However, the Virginia Statute of the Freedom of Religion passed into law even earlier, in 1779. Is virginia disqualified from this contest because it is not a country any more (since 1788 or perhaps 1865).

Also, you might consider that the Indian Emperor Asoka mandated a separation of Church and State when he enacted as follows: "King Piyadasi (Ashok) dear to the Gods, honours all sects, the ascetics (hermits) or those who dwell at home, he honours them with charity and in other ways. But the King, dear to the Gods, attributes less importance to this charity and these honours than to the vow of seeing the reign of virtues, which constitutes the essential part of them. For all these virtues there is a common source, modesty of speech. That is to say, One must not exalt one’s creed discrediting all others, nor must one degrade these others Without legitimate reasons. One must, on the contrary, render to other creeds the honour befitting them." That was about 265 BCE.

Professor

Universal religious toleration? Twelve years after signing the Edict, Constantine began exiling those who refused to accept the Nicene creed, and he ordered their writings destroyed. He didn't seem to believe that the Edict granted universal religious freedom.

The Church certainly didn't interpret the Edict as you suggest either. Less than fifty years after Constantine's death, the Christian Church was executing those who disagreed on matters of religious doctrine, a policy which continued for more than twelve centuries.