spin

jgibson000

Can you tell me, Joseph, what the Greek word is that is translated here as "king"?

JG

JoeWallack

JW:
Steven, I agree with Spin that there is incorrect usage of the offending terms in the Christian Bible. I have Faith that I can speak for Spin here and say that our primary objective is to determine If there is error in usage of the offending titles in the Christian Bible. It pains me to see you arguing against error with nothing. In order to help determine if there is error here I just want you to be aware of the best evidence I see in your favor.

So Josephus sometimes referred to Archelaus as "King". You need to consider how Archelaus was different from the Tetrarchs of the time and whether Josephus or any other ancient author ever referred to a Tetrarch as "King". The King/Ethnarch/Tetrarch designation was obviously important to Rome because it was used to Manage power and had a contemporary legal significance. The specific terms are less important to subsequent authors, especially modern ones, as they no longer have any contemporary legal significance.

The deterioration of contemporary precise titles is also evidence of a later authorship. Understand dear Reader?



Josephus

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

jgibson000

Please note that, even if what Joseph points to is correctly translated, all this at could possibly show was that BASILEUS and EQNARCHS were thought to be interchangeable. But it would do absolutely nothing to "prove" your claim.

So there's no reason for me -- or for Spin -- to acknowledge anything, let alone that we were wrong.

But is it correctly translated? What is the Greek word that is rendered as "king"?

Do you know?

JG

JoeWallack

JW:
Perseus is offline right now so no, I can't. I do know from memory that Josephus uses BASILEUS to refer to Archelaus at least once. Of course there are explanations for this exception. Archelaus was designated to be King by Herod the Great and was granted the potential by Caesar. For what it's worth, Farrell Till, the Father of Internet Skepticism, does not like to promote the inaccurate use of these offending titles as errors because he thinks it nitpicking. Just for the record though I certainly think the inaccurate uses are errors. Since I freely confess that you are the Greek expert here, perhaps you would be so kind as to either indicate where Josephus uses BASILEUS to refer to Archelaus in any way or alternatively to indicate and indict that there are serious problems with my memory and that Josephus never, ever uses BASILEUS or a derivative to refer to Archelaus. As an added bonus, if you do I promise not to ask you again where exactly "Mark" claims that Jesus was the product of Joseph and Mary.



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

spin

This is still too funny!

The "his", whose wife was Glaphyra, of course refers to Herod Archelaus. However, Glaphyra was the daughter of King Archelaus. Erm, was Glaphyra both wife and daughter of Archelaus??

Now check out BJ 2.7.4, which gives you this information:

Glaphyra, the daughter of Archelaus, king of Cappadocia

Umm, wrong Archelaus there, lads. praxeus, do you need a hand to scrape the egg off? I'm sure Joe can lend you one of his.




spin

jgibson000

Josephus states that Archelaus received the titles EQNARCHS and BASILEUS at Ant. 17.317 and War 2.93, but the latter only in anticipation of what he might become, not what he was when he was appointed as EQNARCHS.

So Josephus recognizes that there is no interchangeability between the terms.

And BTW, the Archelaus referred to in the passage of the Antiquities you quote is not the son of Herod whom Augustus appointed Ethnarch of Judea.

Steve Avery's assumption that it is just shows (again) how uncarefully and uncritically he reads the "evidence" he adduces to "prove" his claims and how much he reads into things what he wants to see.

JG

JoeWallack

JW:
Damn! You are good. But fair is fair. Methinks the "Kings" at the end of my quote was intended to refer to Archelaus, uh, son of Herod the Great, too. I eagerly await your next correction/instruction but, as Inspector Clueso would say, "Now we are getting somewhere!



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

spin

I would have thought Josephus is justifying his Glaphyra dream digression by noting his having mentioned a few kings, ie King Archelaus (daddy) and King Juba (ex-hubby)!


spin

JoeWallack

JW:
Maybe the ceremony was performed in the Tetrarchy of Lysaniana?



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page