Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 01-30-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Jesus was depicted as a larger than life superhero..

And yet, such a larger than life superhero is non-existent except from inside one particular book. Don't you find that strange?

If this character was such a figure with such an impact as claimed, there would have been thousands upon thousands who would have witnessed him and his work and there would have been tons and tons of stories, yet no such thing exists.

That's why I think the Jesus of the NT was not actually human. I just can't find any history of him in any credible non-apologetic external sources.

aa5874 · 01-30-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Headache

And yet, such a larger than life superhero is non-existent except from inside one particular book. Don't you find that strange?

If this character was such a figure with such an impact as claimed, there would have been thousands upon thousands who would have witnessed him and his work and there would have been tons and tons of stories, yet no such thing exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitary Man

And if he was hardly as large as life as some made him out to be, but instead a backwater Galilean preacher, what evidence should we have expected?

One would expect evidence of a backwater Galilean preacher, perhaps information like that of Jesus the son of Ananus, declared to be a madman, or similar to Banus as written in Josephus, yet no credible non-apologetic historian or writer gave any account of Jesus, even as backwater.

If Jesus was backwater, then I expect backwater information, but I get nothing.

If Jesus was nothing, what evidence would you expect?

Amaleq13 · 01-30-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitary Man

Why is it so hard for some people to grasp it?

Limited capacity for nuance? :huh:

angelo · 01-30-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

If so, then what "many questions" would finding yet another

"jesus" tomb answer?
hint; None, just more questions, and another opportunity for crafty Christers to make a quick buck off the gullible, nothing new under the sun.

Too right. In the catholic world there are so many pieces of wood claimed as genuine wood from Jesus cross, that 100 crosses can be built. The likely hood of ever finding Jesus tomb must be thousands to one. Most people crucified in Roman times were usually left as food to the dogs and other wild life roaming the land. There would be precious little left to bury.

angelo · 01-30-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffevnz

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

What about the various religions based on Baal, Marduk, Isis, Horus, Zeus, Apollo, and a host of other so-called gods of ancient times. All were fictional.

Obviously. What are you getting at?

You claim to have never heard of cults beginning with fictional characters. There have been hundreds that started with nothing but a myth, or legend. Just as christianity probably did.
Yahweh, the god of the ancient Hewbrews was also a myth. An invention to keep the tribe under control by some leader who may have been a bit smarter than the average bear.

Newfie · 01-31-2008, 06:52 AM

The one thing that everyone in this forum would probably agree upon is that, if Jesus had been an actual real person, it sure would be interesting to go back in time and meet him while he was preaching.

arnoldo · 01-31-2008, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelo atheist

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffevnz

Obviously. What are you getting at?

You claim to have never heard of cults beginning with fictional characters. There have been hundreds that started with nothing but a myth, or legend. Just as christianity probably did.
Yahweh, the god of the ancient Hewbrews was also a myth. An invention to keep the tribe under control by some leader who may have been a bit smarter than the average bear.

Your argument are nothing new. St Agustine totally discredited the Porphyry fallacy who wrote Philosophy from Oracles. Allegedly the god Apollo prophesied the following in reference to how to overthrow the god of Christianity.

Quote:

You might perhaps find it easier to write on water in printed characters or fly like a bird through the air spreading light wings to the breeze, than recall to her senses an impious, polluted wife. Let her go as she pleases persisting in her vain delusions, singing in lamentation for a god who died in delusion, who was condemed by right thinking judges, and killed in hideous fashion by the worst of deaths, a death bound in iron.

arnoldo · 01-31-2008, 10:00 AM

This bible scholar claims the gospel of mark was written by an unsophisticated Jew.

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=088...OR-enlargePage

arnoldo · 01-31-2008, 11:15 AM

Of course the most logical proof that could be provided that Yeshua was not the Son of God would be to produce his corpse several days after he was crucified after his trial with Pilate (Pilate is a historical fact). Sadly for the skeptics no such records of a corpse publicly displayed to the public to discredit christianity have ever been produced. This leads the skeptic to the following choices.

A. The disciples stole Yeshua's body and invented the myth of the resurection.

B. It's all a fairytale (ie, there was no Yeshua, no Paul, no persecution of christians by romans,etc,etc, all of these events were invented in the 5th century)

Solitary Man · 01-31-2008, 11:58 AM

In order for your hypothesis to work, you need to show that in ancient times the Son of God was thought to rise from the dead in corporeal form (assuming he even died in the first place!), and moreover that Jesus Christ was thought to not only be the Son of God by the earliest Christians but also that it was widespread enough to warrant a need to produce the body.

Many people have thought they saw Elvis years, even decades, after his death. Why don't they produce Elvis' body every time someone claims they see Elvis?

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01-31-2008, 06:52 AM	#206
Newfie Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 2,457	The one thing that everyone in this forum would probably agree upon is that, if Jesus had been an actual real person, it sure would be interesting to go back in time and meet him while he was preaching.

01-31-2008, 10:00 AM	#208
arnoldo Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Latin America Posts: 4,066	This bible scholar claims the gospel of mark was written by an unsophisticated Jew. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=088...OR-enlargePage

01-31-2008, 11:15 AM	#209
arnoldo Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Latin America Posts: 4,066	Of course the most logical proof that could be provided that Yeshua was not the Son of God would be to produce his corpse several days after he was crucified after his trial with Pilate (Pilate is a historical fact). Sadly for the skeptics no such records of a corpse publicly displayed to the public to discredit christianity have ever been produced. This leads the skeptic to the following choices. A. The disciples stole Yeshua's body and invented the myth of the resurection. B. It's all a fairytale (ie, there was no Yeshua, no Paul, no persecution of christians by romans,etc,etc, all of these events were invented in the 5th century)

01-31-2008, 11:58 AM	#210
Solitary Man Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ירושלים Posts: 1,701	In order for your hypothesis to work, you need to show that in ancient times the Son of God was thought to rise from the dead in corporeal form (assuming he even died in the first place!), and moreover that Jesus Christ was thought to not only be the Son of God by the earliest Christians but also that it was widespread enough to warrant a need to produce the body. Many people have thought they saw Elvis years, even decades, after his death. Why don't they produce Elvis' body every time someone claims they see Elvis?

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