Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MonCapitan2002 · 12-31-2004, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shome42

I say if you're terminally ill, go to a crowded public place, step onto something, calmly take out your weapon of choice, and then shoot yourself in the head. Of course, leave a note saying that you did not want to shoot yourself, and that you would have preferred to die cleanly and painlessly in the comfort of your own home, but that because of present laws, you were forced to fire a bullet into your brain instead.

I say this might actually get something done. Could you label these people as crazy? Sure, but not of 10, 20, 100 people start to do it. If enough sane, terminally ill people do this, things will finally change.

I don't think such a stunt would have quite the affect you are looking for. A better way to get euthanasia leaglised is to demonstrate that people who are teminally ill have the righto end their own lives. It would be better to present a rational and emotional argument in the defense of legalised euthanasia than the hare brained scheme of blowing one's brains out in public.

Stiletto One · 12-31-2004, 08:53 AM

What I still want to know is: why/how is suicide illegal?

MonCapitan2002 · 12-31-2004, 09:01 AM

I don't understand why myself. My guess is that it is rooted in religion in part. In Christian circles, suicide is considered a sin. Only God has the right to take your life, according to most Christians, I believe. Another reason is that suicide tends to be rather devastating to the suicider's loved ones (if any).

Bright Life · 12-31-2004, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Life
Personally, I think it's a horrible idea. I wouldn't want my child to have nightmares for the rest of her life because someone wanted to make a political statement. A quick internet search will reveal easy ways to off yourself quickly, privately and painlessly.

I think the reason why it's illegal is because it's a slippery slope situation. Life itself, is a terminal disease. So where in the life cycle do you draw the line to mark the unnatural end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shome42

I understand what you're saying, but how many children and adults have nightmares because they had to watch their relatives die slow, agonizing deaths? Or how many have nightmares because their relative literally blew their heads as opposed to dying peacefully. Really, what makes one less deserving of a nightmare than the other?

The two are not comparable. Anyone can privately end his or her life any time he/she wants. It is that person's responsibility to do it in a fashion that causes the least pain personally, and for those around them.

12-31-2004, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shome42

... calmly take out your weapon of choice, and then shoot yourself in the head.

That would be hard to do if your weapon of choice is say, a knife.

PS: If you want to end your life in as horrible a manner as you want, do it in private so you don't get brains on my suit. Thank you very much.

shome42 · 12-31-2004, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Life

The two are not comparable. Anyone can privately end his or her life any time he/she wants. It is that person's responsibility to do it in a fashion that causes the least pain personally, and for those around them.

The entire point is that with present laws, people are often not capable of ending their lives in a way that causes less pain. What are the present options? Bullet to brain, jump off tall building, swallow bottle of OTC pills or hang yourself.

None of the above are particularly appealing. Bullet to the brain and jumping off a building are very traumatic, violent ways to die. Not many have the courage to go in such a way, not to mention the horror of those who find your body, or what's left of it.

Hanging is obviously a torturous way to go, given that you have to choke to death with your eyes popping out of your skull, not to mention it's easy to screw up.

Then we have the overdosing on pills option, which is the preferred method of teenage girls all over America who really don't intend to die because most of the time it doesn't actually kill you.

So given the above, don't say that its your duty to kill yourself in a way that's least painful. The most effective and painless options are made illegal by the government. All that's left are painful and ineffective methods, i.e., the most painful.

12-31-2004, 12:56 PM

You forgot carbon monoxide poisoning, which I have been told is relatively painless, not that I've tried.

shome42 · 12-31-2004, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomJoe

You forgot carbon monoxide poisoning, which I have been told is relatively painless, not that I've tried.

Ahhh, yes, I did forget that. The problem with that one is you might kill other people if you try anywhere besides the woods. It can also be problematic for terminally ill people to drive themselves into the woods and rig up a hose into their car, especially if they're elderly.

Bright Life · 12-31-2004, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shome42

So given the above, don't say that anyone is capable of taking his or her life at any time in any fashion. The most effective and painless options are made illegal by the government. All that's left are painful and ineffective methods.

Any fashion at any time? No. One would hope this would not be a spur-of-the-moment decision. In any case, there are several painless methods that the government has not made illegal. I found several with one google search. I won't list them here, because I'd rather not someone get the idea from what I wrote.

For the sake of argument, however, I will list one commonly known method of obtaining a painless death. Carbon monoxide poisoning. No doctor necessary.

shome42 · 12-31-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Life

Any fashion at any time? No. One would hope this would not be a spur-of-the-moment decision. In any case, there are several painless methods that the government has not made illegal. I found several with one google search. I won't list them here, because I'd rather not someone get the idea from what I wrote.

For the sake of argument, however, I will list one commonly known method of obtaining a painless death. Carbon monoxide poisoning. No doctor necessary.

Why won't you list them? This is all for the sake of argument. It's become apparent in this conversation that speaking vaguely will only get us so far. I find it a bit absurd that you won't list any specifics because you think you may give someone an idea. Should we not talk about terrorism and specific methods terrorists use for the sake of argument as well?

If you seriously want to argue that there are effective, easy and painless ways to kill yourself which make a doctor's help unnecessary, then list them. Otherwise your argument carries no weight.

If you can easily find them on google, don't you think someone suicidal could easily find them too? I've looked around briefly myself and have found several methods, some less painful than others, some more effective than others, but none both effective and painless. I'm curious to see what you've found.

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12-31-2004, 08:53 AM	#32
Stiletto One Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 7,150	What I still want to know is: why/how is suicide illegal?

12-31-2004, 09:01 AM	#33
MonCapitan2002 Contributor Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: --- Posts: 10,496	I don't understand why myself. My guess is that it is rooted in religion in part. In Christian circles, suicide is considered a sin. Only God has the right to take your life, according to most Christians, I believe. Another reason is that suicide tends to be rather devastating to the suicider's loved ones (if any).

12-31-2004, 12:56 PM	#37
TomJoe Guest Posts: n/a	You forgot carbon monoxide poisoning, which I have been told is relatively painless, not that I've tried.

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