Loomis

How does the fact that your explanation can survive in the event that GJohn 10:30 is non-fiction support your claim that it is a good explanation?

If you are genuinely interested in what GJohn 10:30 is about then won’t you want to consider the possibility that it is complete fiction? (Y/N)

After all, it might bring something new to the table.

FathomFFI

No, the point of my essay is to explore the meaning of John in an effort to demonstrate that when the Christians capitalized the name of "God" in John 10.33, they did it in an effort to support their beliefs that the words of "I and the Father are One" in John 10.30 mean that Jesus is saying that he is God.

You are welcome to bring up other arguments, but by going "no holds barred" would only invite non sequitur arguments which would deviate from the theme of the essay. I'd much prefer the arguments address the actual point of the essay.

FathomFFI

I have absolutely no problem considering the Gospel of John as a work of mere fiction. Yet, that does not change the fact that Christian beliefs came from it.

It's not an issue of fact or fiction, but an issue of beliefs. My objective is to dispute those beliefs by using their own "fictional" text to do it.

Bartender

I don't put a whole lot of weight behind anything that is attributed to Jesus as his actual words. I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) that anything was actually written about him for years and even decades after he died. Word of mouth is a horrible way of passing on information about someone or what they said.

Doug Shaver

Yes, but not irrelevant to your question. To do more than purely guess at what he might have meant, assuming that he actually said it, requires answers to a few other questions. Those answers in turn will depend on our reasons for believing that he actually said it.

FathomFFI

But even if you didn't believe he actually said it, and even if we calim that the GoJ is a total work of fiction, it still does not change the wording of the text nor the point of my essay.

It could be a total work of fiction, but within it the error I am pointing out by the Christians would still exist.

Doug Shaver

The point of your essay seems to be about how the text should be interpreted. I think that depends on the author's intentions when he produced the text. If he was writing fiction, I wouldn't expect him to have the same intentions as he would have had, had he believed he was writing history.

storytime

There is a superior status beginning with Moses and Aaron. Did Jesus made reference to this hirachy among Jews as priests when he said of scripture, "Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are Gods?" That this evidenced the scripture of Exodus 7:1 "And the Lord said unto Moses "See, I have made thee[as] a god to Pharoah, and Aaron, thy brother, shall be thy prophet." ??

The leadership position of Levite priests did not create the whole nation of Jewish people as lesser gods. The Levite priesthood was separated as a chosen people to be "the mouth"[speakers] for God in interpretation of laws, rituals, or whatever else the Levites were appointed to do and covenanted in their purpose throughout generations, "forever".

If you want to walk in Jesus shoes, then maybe you should consider that Jesus and his sect of followers had intention in a planned strategy to overthrow the Pharisees. Did Jesus believe the Pharisees and Sadducees have right to the throne[seat of power] at Jerusalem? Why did Jesus believe his arguments were truth and the Pharisees liars, children of the devil, and condemned?

Gospel

Here is a relevant video on YouTube.

Is Jesus God? - Deedat vs Sjoberg 1 of 30

Sorry for the drive by spam.

Toto

How is it relevant? I am not going to watch this now, but I think I have seen Deedat on tape. This particular issue is the one that divides Muslims and Christians - was Jesus human or God?

Does this particular video shed some light on the interpretation of John 10:30?

ETA: This youtube video seems directly on point. But I would prefer to have text to read.