Toto

Catholics are not inerrantist (they consider that a Protestant heresy), and the Pope is not infallible when he speculates about historical theories, as he did here.

Toto

Searchable on Amazon. He cites Raymond Brown in footnote 81, p. 423: "The Problem of Historicity in John" in New Testament Essays. (or via: amazon.co.uk).

aa5874

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infalli..._of_the_Church

Toto

It says: The Infallibility of the Church is the belief that the Holy Spirit will not allow the Church to err in its belief or teaching under certain circumstances.

The Pope is only "infallible" when he says so.

Lugubert

That would have revealed his and his followers' non-conformity, not to say heresy, which mightn't have been a good idea there and then.

aa5874

So the Pope has not lost his infallibility. The Pope represents the Church, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God.

Toto

The Pope has not lost whatever infallibility he had. But then a lot of us would say he never had any to begin with.

The Pope represents the Catholic Church and its conception of the triune God. That's it.

aa5874

That's not all. The Pope is God.

Steven Avery

Hi Folks,

Thanks for sharing that article.

As pointed out above this is actually a fairly well-known issue in viewing the Gospel Passover accounts. However it limits the question to place this as an "Essene" issue. As an example the Karaites have long accepted observation over calculation as the method of determining the Bible special days that are x days after the full moon. While the Karaites are often thought of as a later Jewish sect they claim earlier lineages and connections, with one aspect of that being identifying with groups that differed with the "orthodox" Jewish establishment on the rosh chodesh (1st day of the month) and the special days. (And possibly even the 1st month of the year.)

Please note that the sabbath is a completely different issue. Essentially all who believe in the sabbath being one day in seven, six days labor and one day rest, agree on which day is the sabbath .. even Christians who do not keep the sabbath as a rest day or special day. Afaik there are no groups claiming that the 7th-day sabbath falls on what we would call a Sunday or a Monday .. this is a fascinating issue which can be summarized as ..

"The 7th Day Sabbath is Trans-Calendrical".

(There are some modern groups that have tried to have a movable sabbath based on the moon but that is not really relevant.)

Shalom,
Steven Avery

Sheshbazzar

Here is a little exercise to illustrate just how we differ in respect to how we observe and calculate time.

Each and every one of my minutes is of exactly the same duration, containing exactly sixty equally divided seconds, never one more, and never one less.
Yours?

Each and every one of my hours is of exactly the same duration, summer and winter, day and night, each hour, and every hour, divided into exactly sixty equal minutes, and each minute divided into exactly sixty equal seconds, each and every hour therefore consisting of exactly sixty equal minutes, or exactly three thousand six hundred equal seconds, never one more, and never one less.
Yours?

Each and every one of my days is of exactly the same duration, with exactly twenty-four equal divisions of exactly equal length hours, and one thousand four hundred and forty exactly equal length minutes, and exactly eighty six thousand four hundred exactly equal length seconds, never one more, and never one less.
Yours?

Each and every one of my weeks of days, is of exactly the same duration, consisting of seven exactly equal days, never one more, and never one less. Twenty four exactly equal hours in each and every day, and each and and every full week containing exactly one hundred and sixty eight exactly equal hours, or ten thousand eighty exactly equal minutes, or six hundred and four thousand eight hundred exactly equal seconds, never one more, and never one less.

In each seven days, One day, of exactly twenty four hours, of exactly one thousand four hundred forty minutes, and of exactly eighty six thousand four hundred seconds, set apart, recognized and accounted as The Sabbath Day.
Yours?

Each and every one of my months is of exactly the same duration, consisting of exactly thirty exactly equal length days, never one more, and never one less.
Each full month of thirty exactly equal days, containing exactly seven hundred twenty exactly equal hours, or exactly forty three thousand two hundred exactly equal minutes, or exactly two million five hundred ninety two thousand exactly equal seconds, never one more, and never one less.
Yours?

Round and round, as wheels within wheels, fifteen full days containing exactly three hundred and sixty exactly equal hours, or exactly twenty one thousand six hundred exactly equal minutes, or exactly one million two hundred ninety six thousand exactly equal seconds, never one more, and never one less, a revolution.

Three and one half revolutions, exactly fifty two and one half days, or exactly twelve hundred and sixty exactly equal hours, or exactly seventy five thousand six hundred exactly equal minutes, or exactly four million five hundred thirty six thousand exactly equal seconds, never one more, and never one less.
Seven revolutions of fifteen days, make exactly one hundred and five days, or exactly twenty five hundred and twenty exactly equal hours, or exactly one hundred fifty one thousand two hundred exactly equal minutes, or exactly nine million seventy two thousand exactly equal seconds, never one more, and never one less.
Yet six revolutions, are ninety days, or exactly two thousand one hundred and sixty exactly equal hours, like unto a cube of six exactly equal faces, with exactly two thousand one hundred and sixty exactly equal degrees in all, or exactly one million two hundred ninety six thousand exactly equal minutes, or exactly seven million seven hundred and seventy six thousand exactly equal seconds, all being equal, and never one more, and never one less.
Accounting from the first second of the first day, as the first day of the week, seven lines of fifteen days, seven times three hundred and sixty hours
makes fifteen full weeks, with fifteen full Sabbaths, even three hundred and sixty hours of Sabbath, a revolution of the Sabbath hours.
Three and one half fifteen day lines, is fifty two and one half days, or seven and one half weeks, or twelve hundred and sixty hours, seven times, makes fifty two and one half weeks, or three hundred and sixty seven and one half days, from the beginning of the first second to the end of the final second.

As I employ a measuring reed of three separate lengths, agreeing in the smallest of units, and matching up at multiples of the larger units, so my years are likewise of three measures, never varying by even a second in duration or length.
Whatsoever varies, varies against the standards, yet the standards do not move nor vary..
Three hundred and sixty seconds, three hundred and sixty minutes, three hundred and sixty hours, three hundred and sixty days, three hundred and sixty weeks, three hundred and sixty months, three hundred and sixty years, wheels within wheels, going around, coming around.
Measure upon measure, length upon length, revolution upon revolution, in time what draws away, in time, always comes together again in its appointed time.