sharon45

Both jesus and paul were at odds with each other on many points almost as much as they were at odds with themselves. Most people don't seem to notice how very similar they were in this regard.This says it clear enough.

John A. Broussard

Originally Posted by ex-preacher
Another important difference: Paul never speaks of hell.

Originally Posted by Galatians 1:8-9 KJV
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Are you saying that being accursed has connotations of Hell? If so, you're wrong. The scriptures themselves make it clear that being accursed has no implications of a hell. That's a much, much later christian concept.

E.g., Jesus cursed a fig tree. Though the curse was very effective, that certainly didn't send it to hell.

Magus55

I think you're incorrect in this assessment. Jesus did not teach that good works were required to get into Heaven. I think you may be referring to the the apparent discrepency between Paul and (i think) James, who mentions that works are important ( although never actually says they are required to be saved).

ex-preacher

Read it and weep:

Matthew 25

31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40“The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45“He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.�



Also, read the Sermon on the Mount. It's all about works.

Wallener

I was just qoing to post from Matthew 7 when yours crossed the wire. Jesus is pretty explict in the sermon: he that doeth.... Heck, even the Golden Rule itself is all about "doing".

Elijah

What passage?

CJD

You're just flat-out wrong about that, consider Romans 2:6ff:

Apparently it's not believers in the Christ or his apostle that will be doing the weeping, ex. What you have failed to grasp is how both the synoptics and the letters of Paul define "faith." It's not mere assensus; it is trust, loyalty and obedience.

CJD

Julian

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Elijah

I'm hoping Noah is talking about different passages. That's taking the word Law in those passages way out of context.

"What is written in the Law? How do you read it?" Luke 10:26

Wallener

That Luke passage is a rephrasement of an older canonically Jewish story involving R' Hillel and R' Shammai. "The Law" in all these cases emphatically does mean Torah, and would have been understood as such by Jews of that time.