Johnny Skeptic

Message to Chili: Since you said that you don't read the Bible much, where do you get the answers to all of the questions that I ask you? The bottom line is this: Who specifically created the universe, does what people believe determine what happens to them after they die, and what happens to each specific group of people who have varying world views after they die?

Just out of curiosity, why do you make posts at the IIDB? In other words, what is your purpose in being here?

Let me state my position differently. What the laws/instructions that I mentioned are and what the Jews did about them are two entirely different issues. If the laws/instructions that I mentioned came from God, they were wrong, and so was God allowing Hurricane Katrina to go ashore on the Gulf coast. If the laws/instructions that I mentioned came from Moses and not from God, they were wrong. Might DOES NOT make right. The validity of love and common decency transcend the dictatorial ways of any self-proclaimed ruler of the universe.

Chili

The Book of the Law was given to Moses for the conviction of sin and thus 'that' men might be offended by this law and, ultimately or finally, look for greater Love among men for which the imago must be removed like a foreskin 'that' they can by sincere and walk upright even in the promised land where knowledge rising from the heart must be brought to understanding in the mind.

So the Law is good in two ways. First in creating the stream of consciousness against which sin became known, and second in its offense from the heart unto men that they might stand convicted by the Law -- which was writ upon the human heart as if in stone for that very same reason. This would also be the reason why the Law can be fulfilled in the freedom of Love that is spelled a capital L.

This 40 year 'ban' of circumcision must make reference to the freedom from sin while in the promised land where the transition must take place from greater Love to greater Life (from the son to the father in the NT).

Johnny Skeptic

By whom? Evidence please. Since you said that you don't read the Bible much, where do you get the answers to all of the questions that I ask you? The bottom line is this: Who specifically created the universe, does what people believe determine what happens to them after they die, and what happens to each specific group of people who have varying world views after they die?

Just out of curiosity, why do you make posts at the IIDB? In other words, what is your purpose in being here?

Chili

Just a habit I formed when I was a left winger in soccer.

The universe doesn't exist. It is a name given to space wherein things can be conceived to exist. It is much like time wherein we think we exists and therefore will die when time runs out. The argument here is that if we did not think we would not die and there would be no hereafter to worry about. Ie. "lest you die" is right after all.

From this follows is that to have a world view is the enemy of salvation wherein we have eternal life. Hence, bible reading is wrong if it points at eternal life to which we must not even have one eye asquint so the thief can come in the night to set us free. I am a freelancer who is here for his own good -- which is not to say that I am good or I would not be here. I much appreciate this discussion board where words are allowed to go wild.

Chili

That is obvious if it transfigured him and turned his hair white.

Have you ever been transfigured? If not what is your ground for denying this?

Sheshbazzar

The Torah's claim is that it was given to Moses is certainly debatable.
However that it is very ancient and intertwined with the development of the Jewish nation and religion is evident, as the situations that arise out of the violations of its laws are inextricable elements of the narratives contained within all succeeding texts.
If it was fabricated by the latter developed Priesthood to explain their origins and to give support to their authority, then the sources on which they drew, preserved a much earlier tradition.
Yet if it was this latter Levitical Priesthood that composed the text, with all of their devotion to rules, regulations and elaborate rituals, it is all the more inexplicable that they would have so composed it as to have Moses the law giver, abstaining from enforcing the practice of circumcision as was so clearly and forcefully required by the law.
As to its effect of being able to cause men to examine their consciences, it really matters little how it came to be, that you were able to recognize its dictates as being "wrong", and arrive at this loftier conclusion;

Is what ultimately makes its institution and preservation, 'right',

Yes, in finding fault with the Law, with the conduct of Yahweh, with the conduct of Moses, the Prophets, The Messiah and the Apostles, anyone who considers themselves to be ethically superior in judgment, must needs from hence, to judge for themselves better judgments than these, and to love with a love superior to that which they find deficient and criticize in these;
Which if you so do, neither man nor Elohim may rightly condemn your thoughts or your actions.
"Go, and sin no more", is not a curse to mankind, but a benediction.

Johnny Skeptic

A habit of what? Using spiritual/emotional experencies as a basis for making factual claims about what the truth is?

Then we are not having these discussions, right?

Aside from the existence of the universe, how did humans come to exist? If by intelligent deisgn, which designer?

Upon what evidence do you base your assertions?

In your viewer profile you said that Catholics are God's favorite people. Upon what evidence do you base your assertion? Before the Roman Catholic Church was established, who were God's favorite people? Jews? Why does God play favorites? You are not anything close to any Catholic that I have ever known.

What evidence do you have that Jesus healed people, that he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, that he was born of a virgin, that he never sinned, and that he actually died for the sins of mankind? What evidence do you have regarding what happens to people of all world views after they die? Please be sure to provide corroboration from expert sources. Your own personal spiritual/emotional experiences do not have any credibility at all, most certainly not any more than the spiritual/emotional experiences of a Buddhist. How many people do you personally know who agree with your assertions? Do you have a wife and children? If so, do they believe what you believe? Do you believe that Christians should not attend Church? Do you believe that Christians should pray?

Chili

:notworthy You are much too kind and a gentle man indeed.

Why not just say that the law is the heart of the (as in every) civilization and its enforcement is required to stabilize the heart beat of the civilization.

Chili

That's just a thing that left wingers do according to the rules of the game. This done without emotion that belongs to centre-field where the rising action leads to wins and losses without me in the middle of it.Yes, but we are not the universe.The fall of man created humans who are but a figment of their own imagination and therefore do not exist. It fact, it makes them very crucify-able by the Intelligent Designer who just needed them to do his dirty work.

Which designer? He who is also in you but you do not recognize while doing his dirty work - or it would not be dirty work.I just posted that in the "virgin birth" tread with Joseph's journey to Bethlehem where there was no room at the inn = without a view of the world . . . which is confirmed by the stable wherein is found a pacified ox and mule around the manger wherein Christ was born therefore.


GTG, thanks, more later.

Johnny Skeptic

My point is, upon what evidence do you base your many assertions?

[/quote] The fall of man created humans who are but a figment of their own imagination and therefore do not exist. It fact, it makes them very crucify-able by the Intelligent Designer who just needed them to do his dirty work.

Which designer? He who is also in you but you do not recognize while doing his dirty work - or it would not be dirty work.[/quote]

But I still need to know the name of the designer. Is the designer the specific designer that is mentioned in Genesis?

[qutoe=Chili] I just posted that in the "virgin birth" tread with Joseph's journey to Bethlehem where there was no room at the inn = without a view of the world . . . which is confirmed by the stable wherein is found a pacified ox and mule around the manger wherein Christ was born therefore.[/quote]

What in the world are you talking about? You have made numerous assertions, and none of them had anything whatsoever to do with Bethlehem. There is not any evidence at all that Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

In another post, I asked you how many people do you personally know who agree with your assertions, if you have a wife and children who agree with your assertions, and if you believe that Christians should not go to church, but you did not answer my questions. Why not? I suspect that you are basically a solitary person, and that you makes posts at the IIDB merely for entertainment purposes. Is that correct?