Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Anat · 07-11-2006, 07:08 AM

Exodus believers tend to dismiss the cultural continuity between Canaanites and early Israelites as evidence for Canaanite origin of the Israelites. I don't understand why they think it reasonable, when just a few decades in Babylonian exile had the Jews adopt a different script, a different calendar and many elements of the Zoroastrian belief system.

Dean Anderson · 07-11-2006, 01:04 PM

I've converted my spreadsheet to HTML, and put it here.

Hopefully it should be visible in most browsers (if not, blame Microsoft's Excel export functionality). I think that if you save a local copy of the page, then you can open it with Excel and it should remember the formulae...

dug_down_deep · 07-11-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sven

Well, if you had read the thread, you would know: "The Bible Unearthed" by Finkelstein&Silverman is a good source.

Sorry, sometimes I skim.

Quote:

If there was no conquest, there were no people who did a conquest thus there were no people who escaped Egypt. What's fallacious about this?

If there was no Irish voyage to Arcturus, there were no Irish, thus there was no potato famine.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just using somewhat flimsy logic. Whatever.

--doug

dug_down_deep · 07-11-2006, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asha'man

This is the professional opinion of a pair of professional archaeologists, Finkelstein and Silberman, as written up in their book The Bible Unearthed. They have done extensive work in Israel, as well as re-examined the work of their predecessors.

Thank you. I've reserved a copy from the library, and a copy of David and Solomon as well. So maybe I can keep up with the next discussion.

Quote:

I think you are missing key points of the story. Joseph was sold as a slave, but later became an advisor to the Pharaoh. When Canaan was stuck in a famine, the rest of Joseph's family came to live in Egypt. While in Egypt, they were all enslaved, and stayed there as slaves for ~400 years. There simply were no 'Israelites' elsewhere in the world (as the story goes), anyone who wasn't in Egypt at the time was considered a non-Israelite people.

In the text, which is obviously suspect. It doesn't really matter how the text defines 'Israelites'. What matters historically is if there is any grain of truth in the myth. I only doubt that it is "pure myth", as the previous post suggested.

--doug

Diogenes the Cynic · 07-11-2006, 03:02 PM

If there's any grain of truth it's in the Hyksos expulsion.

Anat · 07-11-2006, 03:06 PM

And maybe something about Egypt exerting varying levels of control on Canaan.

Wads4 · 07-11-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

If there's any grain of truth it's in the Hyksos expulsion.

This is what I have suggested several times, but no-one has ever discussed it. It would even be roughly contemporaneous with the eruption of Santorini in about 1628 BC, which very plausibly could have polluted the Nile delta, causing animal die-offs and plagues, as well as tsunami -like effects in the Sea of Reeds

Anat · 07-11-2006, 06:04 PM

My understanding is that 1628 BCE falls quite in the middle of the Hyksos rule, so such disasters if they indeed happened would have had little to do with their expulsion. How long do you think the after-effects of the eruption would have been felt?

gregor · 07-11-2006, 08:23 PM

12 to 24 hours

(sorry, couldn't help it)

darstec · 07-11-2006, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

My understanding is that 1628 BCE falls quite in the middle of the Hyksos rule, so such disasters if they indeed happened would have had little to do with their expulsion. How long do you think the after-effects of the eruption would have been felt?

I just read a recent book on that and other disasters. The one in 535 CE is said to have killed off about 3/4 of the world's population. And there was a year long twilight/darkness. The author maintains it was the infancy of the Dark Ages. Surprisingly (or not) many of the survivors lived in isolated Christian monasteries.

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07-11-2006, 07:08 AM	#21
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	Exodus believers tend to dismiss the cultural continuity between Canaanites and early Israelites as evidence for Canaanite origin of the Israelites. I don't understand why they think it reasonable, when just a few decades in Babylonian exile had the Jews adopt a different script, a different calendar and many elements of the Zoroastrian belief system.

07-11-2006, 01:04 PM	#22
Dean Anderson Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Brighton, England Posts: 6,947	I've converted my spreadsheet to HTML, and put it here. Hopefully it should be visible in most browsers (if not, blame Microsoft's Excel export functionality). I think that if you save a local copy of the page, then you can open it with Excel and it should remember the formulae...

07-11-2006, 03:02 PM	#25
Diogenes the Cynic Moderator - Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 4,639	If there's any grain of truth it's in the Hyksos expulsion.

07-11-2006, 03:06 PM	#26
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	And maybe something about Egypt exerting varying levels of control on Canaan.

07-11-2006, 06:04 PM	#28
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	My understanding is that 1628 BCE falls quite in the middle of the Hyksos rule, so such disasters if they indeed happened would have had little to do with their expulsion. How long do you think the after-effects of the eruption would have been felt?

07-11-2006, 08:23 PM	#29
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	12 to 24 hours (sorry, couldn't help it)

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