Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ted Hoffman · 05-30-2006, 02:50 AM

I agree. Fuck them very much. Since Vork's public apology pivoted around Tabor, I think it has a lot to do with his scathing review of Tabor. So I think you may be right.
One thing I cant understand is exactly how Tabor/Jim West got to Vork. Did Tabor/West go through a scholar Vork respects?
Did he approach someone at the University where Vork works?
Yes, Vork's review was hard-hitting. And yes, Tabor's book is not worthy of anyone who claims they are a scholar in any field.
Vork's grasp of NT issues and current scholarship was clearly superior to Tabor's apologetic salad masquerading as a scholarly contribution and Vork correctly ripped it apart. Tabort could muster no defense and rallied Jim West and others to start shit-canning Vorks posts at Biblical Studies and lumping Vork with "fringe elements or conspiracy theorists or ufo-ologists and their kinfolk" - somehow, they pulled something and got a public apology from Vork. An apology that in my opinion, was not deserved.
Here is Vork's Open Letter to Jim West:

<deleted at Vork's request>

Something like this happened to Wells IIRC, and scholars like Price came in his defense - I think his job at whichever faculty he was working was at stake - it should be on the net.

We should Come together and Defend Vork

spin · 05-30-2006, 05:08 AM

The blog entry written by Dr West is worthy of reading for its psychological revelation. The web blog is here.

I wrote a response to the entry, though I understand it won't be published by the blogger. It is as follows:

Quote:

This is the first post by this site's blogger that I have read. One can tell that he is upset, even upset about a review of a book, but why he is upset about the review, he doesn't actually say. I can tell of course that he didn't like the review. One can gather this from the bombastic tone of his writing, but what does he say about the source of his anger? Nothing.

He attacks the writer for not being qualified in the field he is commenting on, unlike the writer who signs himself "Dr Jim West". Without any tangible evidence for what he is saying this blog entry seems like one extended ad hominem against the review writer.

He has taken the trouble to go to the offending website to read the offensive review for some reason, despite the fact that he obviously had trouble reading it. After all, he calls it "the worst, rudest, and most revolting [he'd] ever bothered with."

I have the feeling that the blogger has problems expressing himself, for I have grave doubts that he actually means that it was "the worst, rudest, and most revolting". Perhaps, "one of the worst...", but his obviously inaccurate use of the superlative is the sort of things that sophomores get marked down for. Dr West though continues the faux pas with his overuse of the hyperbole: take for instance the alliterative "Invincible ignorance and inept reviewers" as a prime example. (A penchant for alliteration is usually a substitute for wit.) To add to the writer's woes he even gets his punctuation wrong, as in the case of "The issue- the rightness or sensibleness of dilettantes delving into arena's in which they have no competence, ability, or training." Dr West, the apostrophe isn't used to mark a plural.

It's very hard to take seriously a person who talks of another's "ignorance and stupidity", while at the same time making such errors of style and punctuation.

"The issue" according to Dr West is "the rightness or sensibleness of dilettantes delving into arena's in which they have no competence, ability, or training." When I read this blog entry I saw no defence of this issue. I saw no evidence regarding the competence of the dilettante he is haranguing. All I saw was the writer's anger, the writer's feeling of some affront caused by the dilettante somehow encroaching on his turf, turf for which he has a license to be on.

Dr West writes "Does free speech really mean any and every fool who has a stupid or mindless idea or opinion should befoul the airwaves with it?" However, we know by the fact that he took the trouble to read the review that he is not in fact dealing with a stupid person with mindless ideas, unless Dr West is a masochist who likes reading foolish rubbish despite himself. He actively sought out the review. He went to the site. He didn't have to.

He acts as if he himself had been attacked by the review penned by our dilettante. There is a deep seated feeling of insecurity to be found in this pathetically uninformative response to a negative review of somebody else's book. So a dilettante dared to write a review in a field that the dilettante is not an expert in. But why bother publishing such a venting of spleen when it is more a gloomy window on the writer than on the dilettante?

spin

I heartily recommend anyone who wants to write a reasoned response to the web entry linked above to do so. No rants. It'll only make him feel justified.

spin

yummyfur · 05-30-2006, 08:04 AM

It looks like Jim West now has some rant against all Infidels on his blog today. It seems that the force of his argument is that since we all have "silly" screen names, we are obviously ignorant dillitants.

Is there any reason that I should take a Doctorate of Theology from Andersonville Baptist Seminary, with any seriousness, in the subject of ancient history or anything outside of what is Baptist doctrine? Especially since you can earn your degree online! Personally I consider him as much as a dillitant as any of us.

http://www.andersonvilleseminary.com/

MrFrosty · 05-30-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yummyfur

It looks like Jim West now has some rant against all Infidels on his blog today. It seems that the force of his argument is that since we all have "silly" screen names, we are obviously ignorant dillitants.

There is nothing silly about my name fs. Granted, it isn't quite as gosu as senor boogie woogie but, yeah, you can't beat 'em all.

Jack the Bodiless · 05-31-2006, 01:53 AM

...Good grief!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andersonville's "Doctrine" page

The Scriptures

We believe that the Bible is the Word of God and is the absolute authority in determining the faith and practice of God’s people. We affirm that the sixty-six books of the Bible are inerrant, divinely and uniquely inspired, and are given to mankind written as they were inspired by the Spirit of God. These Scriptures are divinely intended for personal study through the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

So, they're a bunch of ignorant fundies pretending to be an educational institution.

Jim West's "degree" is worthless.

Chris Weimer · 05-31-2006, 02:37 AM

One can hardly call Jim West's position on inerrancy "ignorant fundamentalist". But since around here I guess we don't bother to check out people's credibility/positions for themselves, whatever you say must be true, right? I mean, because your degree in Biblical Studies allows you to judge Dr. West, right?

Jack the Bodiless · 05-31-2006, 02:53 AM

I actually said that West's degree was worthless. I can judge the institution that awarded it.

Wikipedia: List of unaccredited institutions of higher learning

Quote:

This article lists colleges, seminaries, and universities whose qualifications may possibly not be accepted by civil service or other employers. These institutions may have been listed on publicly available lists of unaccredited institutions, or are absent from UNESCO related IAU Universities List of world universities (see "external links" at the bottom of this article). Some are also suspected of being diploma mills, while others are no longer in existence. Several unaccredited universities have names chosen because they are similar to those of accredited institutions or falsely imply that it is a public university...

...Andersonville Theological Seminary...

Jack the Bodiless · 05-31-2006, 03:09 AM

More gems from the Andersonville website:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andersonville's "information" page

The Great Commission also requires, however, a more in-depth teaching of the doctrines taught by Christ. To insure that the Christian worker more fully understands these doctrines, ATS requires extensive Bible readings, requires comprehension of extensive lectures in Bible doctrines, requires extensive scholarly readings from Christian authors, requires extensive research of and writing upon Bible doctrines, and offers the student the insight of conservative Bible professors.

...But not the "liberal" or "mainstream" ones, I guess.

Quote:

For teachers the primary training is in Bible doctrine regarding the advancement and defense of the fundamentals of the Christian faith.

...Hmmm. The "fundamentals". I wonder if this makes them "fundamentalists"?

Quote:

Andersonville Theological Seminary exists to offer students an atmosphere that promotes and teaches a conservative view of all Bible doctrines. Adherence to the doctrinal statement is supposed by all ATS students, faculty, staff, and alumni.

So, it's strictly "conservative-only" then.

spin · 05-31-2006, 03:54 AM

What value is a doctorate in divinity? How do you measure the weight of air?... hot air?

Yellum Notnef · 05-31-2006, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

What value is a doctorate in divinity? How do you measure the weight of air?... hot air?

It's about as valuable as a doctorate in Star Trek.
He might as well have gone to clown school and learned to ride a tiny bike.

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05-30-2006, 02:50 AM	#51
Ted Hoffman Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: "" Posts: 3,863	I agree. Fuck them very much. Since Vork's public apology pivoted around Tabor, I think it has a lot to do with his scathing review of Tabor. So I think you may be right. One thing I cant understand is exactly how Tabor/Jim West got to Vork. Did Tabor/West go through a scholar Vork respects? Did he approach someone at the University where Vork works? Yes, Vork's review was hard-hitting. And yes, Tabor's book is not worthy of anyone who claims they are a scholar in any field. Vork's grasp of NT issues and current scholarship was clearly superior to Tabor's apologetic salad masquerading as a scholarly contribution and Vork correctly ripped it apart. Tabort could muster no defense and rallied Jim West and others to start shit-canning Vorks posts at Biblical Studies and lumping Vork with "fringe elements or conspiracy theorists or ufo-ologists and their kinfolk" - somehow, they pulled something and got a public apology from Vork. An apology that in my opinion, was not deserved. Here is Vork's Open Letter to Jim West: <deleted at Vork's request> Something like this happened to Wells IIRC, and scholars like Price came in his defense - I think his job at whichever faculty he was working was at stake - it should be on the net. We should Come together and Defend Vork

05-30-2006, 08:04 AM	#53
yummyfur Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 351	It looks like Jim West now has some rant against all Infidels on his blog today. It seems that the force of his argument is that since we all have "silly" screen names, we are obviously ignorant dillitants. Is there any reason that I should take a Doctorate of Theology from Andersonville Baptist Seminary, with any seriousness, in the subject of ancient history or anything outside of what is Baptist doctrine? Especially since you can earn your degree online! Personally I consider him as much as a dillitant as any of us. http://www.andersonvilleseminary.com/

05-31-2006, 02:37 AM	#56
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	One can hardly call Jim West's position on inerrancy "ignorant fundamentalist". But since around here I guess we don't bother to check out people's credibility/positions for themselves, whatever you say must be true, right? I mean, because your degree in Biblical Studies allows you to judge Dr. West, right?

05-31-2006, 03:54 AM	#59
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	What value is a doctorate in divinity? How do you measure the weight of air?... hot air?

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