Peter Kirby

But Bede! I learned everything I need to know about the Inquisition from a Mel Brooks movie and assorted Usenet posts. Why crack open a book? Paper is so 16th century!

regards,
Peter Kirby

Bede

Thank you! While atheism is not a religion, there are certainly atheists who behave and think like fundamentalists. You are right to note that they react similarly when you question the historical basis of their mythology.

Best wishes

Bede

sorompio

I wonder who decides in this case which is a credible source or not. The Vatican, on the last days of John Paul II, admitted about 10.000 fatal victims of Inquisition, but that doesn't include the "secular arm". But the "secular arm", must be remembered, just triggered the crimes appointed by the church, including blasphemy, heresy and blood impurity. If the Vatican admits 10.000, they are probably (er, surely) much more, as serious researchers like Julio Caro Baroja and Marcelino Menéndez y Pelayo showed time ago.

There is no mention either to the atrocious work of the Inquisition in South America, and it is notorious the lack of Spanish and Italian authors about the subject in their own countries. Henry Kamen is a milestone, but no serious account of sources can be presented today without the references of Bartolomé Benassar or Ricardo GarcÃ*a Cárcel, among others.

I've noticed that Christians try to diminish responsability for their crimes, normally pointing out that others committed horrible crimes too. But "others" do not claim a "religion of love", do they?

Doug Shaver

I'm one atheist who couldn't agree more, and there are plenty of others like me.

I don't know if the term has gotten around much, but in another forum that I frequent, some of us have taken to calling those folks fundamatheists.

Toto

Not to interrupt this little Catholic love fest, but the emphasis on the Inquisition IMHO has a modern political basis. There is a need to personify the evil that comes from trying to control thoughts or putting people on trial for thought crimes. The main political use of this is not to accuse Christians of being anti-science, but to put a check on anyone who tries to enforce ideological purity.

It's not really about Christians. Everyone knows that the Pope has apologized for the Inquisition. And, as you have noted, some of the main proponents of the evils of the Inquisition were anti-Catholic Protestants.

But there are also a lot of people who get queasy at the idea of trying to say that the Inquisition wasn't as bad as made out. It was bad enough, wasn't it?

Spitfire

Maybe not in your case! But, generally speaking, I'm really amazed how easily many people who describe themselves as skeptical can form such strong opinions about Christianity and more than a thousand years of history based only on a highly simplistic understanding of Galilieo's run-in with the inquistion (which is perhaps further reinforced by the aforementioned Mel Brooks film.)

I agree that it was harsh. Unnecessarily so I would agree. But it's not entirely fair for us today to judge how things were done back then. It's too easy for us to do so when it was a differnet world in a lot of ways back then. And one thing I do know is, if Galileo had insulted any secular ruler at the time (Christian or not) the way he had insulted the pope that got him in trouble with the inquisition, he would not have lived to die of natural causes some ten years later!

triffidfood

Galileo's "run-in with the inquisition"? :huh: How about the slaughter of half a million or so Cathars & the complete (more or less) destruction of their culture, just for one particularly depressing, violent & bloody example?

For what it matters, when I think of the "Inquisition" (actually, the Inquisition doesn't seem quite right, since we're actually talking about an ongoing, protracted historical process going all the way back to Codex Theodosianus here, but anyway) I personally never, ever think about Galileo Spitfire.

Doug Shaver

What were they accused of? Witchcraft, right? There is no such thing, therefore nobody can be guilty of it. Therefore, anyone accused of it is innocent.

Spitfire

Half a million? That ranks right up there with the ridiculous claim that 900,000 women were killed during the mythological "burning times." That even one Cathar was killed unnecessarily is bad, I agree, but half a million? If you're referring to the fate of the "Albiga" Cathari in France, most of those were killed in a military campaign, the inquisition never called for their death. And even then it was nowhere near half a million of them, not even close.

jim_w

In what way is there "no such thing" as Witchcraft? Are you claiming that the whole concept of magic was invented by the Church as an excuse to burn women?