Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MarkB4 · 01-10-2006, 10:41 AM

Mod Note: Split from PA&SA thread "Pastor Mark - Atheist Charity"
http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=149915

Alter, praying can be good, by the way, even from your humanist perspective. Consider this - it is hard to hate someone when you are praying for God to bless them. And sometimes, praying for someone even leads to getting up out of your chair and lending a hand to them.

Mark

general_koffi · 01-10-2006, 11:06 AM

The whole mechanism falls apart if you know you're only speaking to the wall...

MarkB4 · 01-10-2006, 11:34 AM

Are we? I know your answer - and you know mine. What's missing for you is the acknopwledgement of the possibility of a relationship - and He is real - and I know Him.

Yahzi · 01-10-2006, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkB4

Alter, praying can be good, by the way, even from your humanist perspective.

Your examples do not convince.

Quote:

Consider this - it is hard to hate someone when you are praying for God to bless them.

But easy when you are praying to God to damn them. On the other hand, it's hard to hate someone when you understand them from a naturalistic perspective as ordinary flawed human beings.

Quote:

And sometimes, praying for someone even leads to getting up out of your chair and lending a hand to them.

Why? Isn't getting up and lending them a hand basically admitting that your prayers aren't going to work?

If people would just acknowledge that prayer never worked, maybe they would get up more often.

Quetzalcoatl · 01-10-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkB4

Are we? I know your answer - and you know mine. What's missing for you is the acknopwledgement of the possibility of a relationship - and He is real - and I know Him.

There is no god.
Free your mind from ancient superstition.
We are here to help.

MarkB4 · 01-10-2006, 11:44 AM

Yahzi - I don't damn them. Are you so strident in your dismissal of Christianity to not see a good thing? Naturalism is no basis for morality. Secular Humanism I undersatnd, but it is an elevated belief system.

Maybe when you are getting up it is precisely because the prayers are working.

By the way, prayer works, I've seen it.

Have a great day,
Mark

tonan22 · 01-10-2006, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahzi

If people would just acknowledge that prayer never worked, maybe they would get up more often.

:thumbs:

MarkB4 · 01-10-2006, 11:50 AM

So there it is - you have said it so it is so. You must have accumulated a great deal of knowledge for this position. Open to the truth?

I have no quarrel with your belief system, but would it be that hard to tone down your disregard for others? You accuse me of praying to damn someone and then do a secular version of the same. It sometimes seems on this forum that the pot is calling the kettle black.

Our belief systems are based on our decision to take different data into account. Why is that so hard for you?

Julian · 01-10-2006, 11:53 AM

The problem, Mark, is that every time there has been a study of prayer it has been shown to not have any effect. Makes everybody wonder what effect it is that you have seen, since science has clearly shown that there isn't any.

We believe in scientific evidence, you believe in some entity, the existence of which you are unable to prove or even shown any evidence for. It is no wonder that we are somewhat incredulous.

Julian

Quetzalcoatl · 01-10-2006, 11:53 AM

Why do you persist in believing myths?
Reality is your friend.
Nothing fails like prayer.
Only you can free your mind.

01-10-2006, 10:41 AM	#1
MarkB4 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 211	Praying can be good - Split from PA&SA Mod Note: Split from PA&SA thread "Pastor Mark - Atheist Charity" http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=149915 Alter, praying can be good, by the way, even from your humanist perspective. Consider this - it is hard to hate someone when you are praying for God to bless them. And sometimes, praying for someone even leads to getting up out of your chair and lending a hand to them. Mark

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01-10-2006, 11:06 AM	#2
general_koffi Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Johannesburg, South Africa Posts: 10,887	The whole mechanism falls apart if you know you're only speaking to the wall...

01-10-2006, 11:34 AM	#3
MarkB4 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 211	Are we? I know your answer - and you know mine. What's missing for you is the acknopwledgement of the possibility of a relationship - and He is real - and I know Him.

01-10-2006, 11:44 AM	#6
MarkB4 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 211	Yahzi - I don't damn them. Are you so strident in your dismissal of Christianity to not see a good thing? Naturalism is no basis for morality. Secular Humanism I undersatnd, but it is an elevated belief system. Maybe when you are getting up it is precisely because the prayers are working. By the way, prayer works, I've seen it. Have a great day, Mark

01-10-2006, 11:50 AM	#8
MarkB4 Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 211	So there it is - you have said it so it is so. You must have accumulated a great deal of knowledge for this position. Open to the truth? I have no quarrel with your belief system, but would it be that hard to tone down your disregard for others? You accuse me of praying to damn someone and then do a secular version of the same. It sometimes seems on this forum that the pot is calling the kettle black. Our belief systems are based on our decision to take different data into account. Why is that so hard for you?

01-10-2006, 11:53 AM	#9
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	The problem, Mark, is that every time there has been a study of prayer it has been shown to not have any effect. Makes everybody wonder what effect it is that you have seen, since science has clearly shown that there isn't any. We believe in scientific evidence, you believe in some entity, the existence of which you are unable to prove or even shown any evidence for. It is no wonder that we are somewhat incredulous. Julian

01-10-2006, 11:53 AM	#10
Quetzalcoatl Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Caribbean - land of beach sun and party Posts: 1,204	Why do you persist in believing myths? Reality is your friend. Nothing fails like prayer. Only you can free your mind.

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