Ben C Smith

What kind of evidence would you be looking for? (Keep in mind that the Dewey Decimal System had yet to be invented, and cover blurbs were as yet unknown, as well.)

Ben.

Amaleq13

Again, does what you "know" have any basis in actual data?

Avoiding the question again strongly suggests the answer is "no".

It would be great if someone were to conduct the experiment your apparently unsubstantiated opinion suggests but, to my knowledge, no one has actually done the work necessary to support your speculation.

spamandham

If there is none, does it matter what I would look for?

Ben C Smith

There is plenty of evidence for the genre of the gospels, including Mark; there is, in fact, enough to fill a book (and that book has been written, and it is very good; details later).

It definitely matters what you would look for. If you are looking only for evidence type X and but all that exists is evidence type Y, you will conclude that no evidence exists.

Another way of saying this is: If you do not know what you are looking for, how will you know if you have found it?

Ben.

spamandham

The 4 canonical gospels were written by different authors at different times, as you're well aware, with the other 3 dependent on Mark, as you're also aware.

To say they are all the same genre requires independent analysis of each. That analysis for Mark will not be valid unless it's based soley on the text of Mark itself.

Books exist that support any desired position, including the one I've suggested: Jesus A Very Jewish Myth (written by our very own Malichi151).

Ben C Smith

I completely agree that each judgment has to be made separately. The book that I have in mind handles that.

I am not sure how to respond to an appeal to the authority of one who has no authority at all.

The authority I am appealing to is a recognized scholar (and, in case you worry about such things, is cited very favorably even by Robert Price). (Also, I am not appealing to authority for my conclusions; I am appealing to this authority as a handy source for the various kinds of evidence available; this is an important distinction to make.)

Ben.

ETA: Almost forgot to ask again: What kinds of evidence would you be looking for?

spamandham

Then don't respond to it as an appeal to authority, since it certainly wasn't intended as such. The point is, present whatever evidence you have in mind rather than vaguely referring to a book.

Source evidence of course (...well, English translations of it anyway) , and reasonably incontrovertable analysis thereof.


...more specifically, I would be interested in either relevant external evidence that explicitly tells us the genre, or in comparisons to other period works for which the genre's are well established. As an example, comparing Mark to Esther, we might conclude Mark is a Jewish novel rather than an attempt at a biography.

andrewcriddle

Are you suggesting that Mark was not constrained to any significant extent by the views about Jesus already held by his intended audience ?

If this is what you are saying, then this is IMO unlikely, if this is not what you are claiming, then I think you may be missing my point.

You have mentioned Esther as a parallel. I am not sure myself whether or not Esther is a Jewish novel, (I agree it is not history but that is not the same thing). If you don't mind I'll use Judith, (which IMO is a Jewish novel), rather than Esther in order to discuss the point you are making.

The author of Judith was not constrained by the views about Judith held by his audience, because his (or her) audience had never heard about Judith before. The author of Mark is not in the same position. He is probably presenting a picture of Jesus with significant differences from the picture his audience previously held, but the differences cannot be too vast or his work will be rejected by his audience because it just doesn't fit their previous ideas of Jesus.

Andrew Criddle

spamandham

What have you based this conclusion on?

Ben C Smith

Thank you for this brief list of the kinds of evidence we would look for.

The book is Charles H. Talbert, What Is A Gospel (or via: amazon.co.uk)? Talbert specializes in that second kind of evidence you mentioned, comparisons to other period works of established genre. I highly recommend his comparisons. I do not think Esther compares nearly as closely as the actual texts Talbert adduces as genre indicators for the gospels.

Ben.