Steve Weiss

Your usage of language is very loose to say the least. Each one of us is god? Surely you are being very vague in your definition of a god just as you are about the meaning of the term angel. One knows something through intuition? Perhaps you'd like to define intuition then? I would define intuition as the "ability to draw rational inferences from incomplete information." It's similar to drawng a line on a graph in order to determine its slope and estimate futures values based upon an observable pattern. This methodology works well in science, but wild speculation that is the stock and trade of religion is without validity.

I find your last sentence above to be totally opaque.

Steve Weiss

Your knowledge and scholarship is commendable and has its place if understanding history is your objective, but if your mandate is to convince believers using facts and logic then you are unlikely to reach your objective.

Nearly half of Americans believe that man was created 6000 years ago. Do you think that they will have any appreciation for science, facts, and logic? Belief is so much easier and psychologically comfortable. Cold hard facts versus eternal life? You have a mountain to climb.

aa5874

The 2000 year mystery have been solved. The History of the Church as presented by Church writers is WHOLLY BOGUS.

The Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century after ANONYMOUS sources claimed that the Jews Delivered up the Son of their own God to be killed and that it was for that reason the Jewish Temple and Jerusalem was made Desolate.

The actions of Jesus was believed to be historical simply because Jesus was a God and could do anything.

In antiquity, people BELIEVED a God could WALK on water, Transfigure, Instantly heal the blind, deaf, dumb, raised the dead and Resurrect.

These ANONYMOUS stories were believed to have been composed by the Apostles of the Son of God sometime AFTER the ascension and it was believed that the very words of the Son of God was fulfilled when the Jewish Temple was detroyed and Jerusalem was laid waste c 70 CE.

We have many versions of the Jesus stories in the NT and Apologetic sources and it is claimed Jesus was indeed the Son of God.

The Son of God could do anything in the Gospels.

Non-Apologetic sources of antiquity OBVIOUSLY wrote Nothing of the Son of God.

It was in the 2nd century that Non-Apologetic sources began to write about the stories of the Son of God.

Celsus, in "Against Celsus" did NOT mention the name of any author of the Gospels, nor did he mention Paul.

Against Celsus 1 The History of the Church has been SOLVED.

The Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century.

Sheshbazzar

My friend Chili seems to have a point from The Bible and Christ's perspective.

Chili

Nono, take a good look at this, and is worth reading too:

And more of this in here:

http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/a/aris...poa/book2.html

What he is saying there is that intuition drives each and every move we make, as even simple walking is intuit once we know how to walk.

Then if in science the primary premise is always ours by intuition -- that by reduction can be shown to simply walking -- it must follow that we are omnisceint but we just do not know this as outsider to our own self. This concept is what makes learning possible that Plato calls 'recollecting' because the knowledge is already ours before we start, and so it is that only inquisitive minds can learn (or else we'd be humping goats again, that my dad used to call 'trying to breed the devil,' and don't your see?).

Aristotle called it 'a positive speaker and receptive listener' and the bible tells us that "the reign of God is already in our midst."

Hence my "science exctracts from omniscience" and is why angels do not exist in heaven, nor do 'mountians' to deliver speaches from. Iow, thinking is the ambition of dummies.

Sorry I am streching here to make a point know, but as seen from heaven that is true, and so is why the saints in heaven are entertained by the folly of humans down below.

Steve Weiss

But that's just the point. Why would anyone in his right mind quote the bible, an obvious work of fiction, as if it were a credible source? That apart from the fact that the word god is a meaningless term for which there is no referent in reality. Call yourself anything that you like; that won't make it true.

Steve Weiss

You are incorrect. Walking is not intuitive; it is automized learned activity as any motor skill is as well. A golf swing is not intuitive; it is learned through repeated trial and error and is very difficult to replicate consistently since errors creep in, even if one knows what one should do but fails to do it perfectly. Practice does not make perfect; perfect practice make perfect.

aa5874

I am NOT in the convincing business. I Examine and Present the evidence from antiquity.

It is IMPERATIVE that the evidence from antiquity be thoroughly examined in order to come to a resolution.

I have developed an argument that CANNOT be overturned that the Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century.

I have also formulated the strongest argument AGAINST those who claim there was an historical Jesus.

Essentially, the HJ argument can be shown to be WHOLLY bogus.

At one time probably more than HALF the world Believed the Earth did NOT revolve around the Sun.

It was those who EXPOSED the Cold Hard Facts who caused people to now accept that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

Galileo was RIDICULED and placed under house arrest for the Cold Hard Facts about the movement of the Earth.

In any event, the COLD HARD FACTS MUST FIRST BE EXPOSED.

This is the COLD HARD FACT---The Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century.

aa5874

The Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century.

If there was NO Jesus, NO disciples, NO Paul and NO Pauline letters in the 1st century then we would NOT recover any manuscripts that mentioned them.

That is EXACTLY what has happened.

No Ancient manuscript that have been actually found and dated to the 1st century reveal any stories about Jesus, the disciples and Paul.

However, we have found manuscripts with Jesus, the disciples and Paul from the 2nd century.

Quite remarkably, we have Roman writers up to the 2nd century, that wrote NOTHING of Jesus and Paul even though they mention people called Christians.

1. 2nd century writings atrributed to Suetonius, Tacitus and Pliny mention Christians or Chrestians but ZERO, NIL, NOTHING of Jesus and Paul.

2. UP to the mid 4th century, Julian the Emperor, challenged anyone to show that any well known author mentioned Jesus and Paul.

3. Not even the authors of the NT claimed they met Jesus in any of the 27 books.

4. Not one NT author corroborates that the Pauline letters were written before the Fall of the Temple c 70 CE.

5. Apologetic sources IMPLIED Paul was ALIVE after Revelation and gLuke were Already composed.

6. The Pauline writer claimed events were Revealed to him that are found ONLY in gLuke.

The preponderance of evidence, the actual collected dated evidence, shows that the Jesus story and cult originated in the 2nd century.

Chili

Oh I see, now we have a motor in there someplace.