aa5874

I think it is ALSO IMPORTANT to note that Justin Martyr did NOT claim gMatthew was written first.

Justin Martyr did NOT mention gMatthew, gMark, gLuke, gJohn, Acts of the Apostles, the Pauline epistles, Hebrews, the non-Pauline epistles.

Justin Martyr wrote about the "MEMOIRS of the Apostles" or THE GOSPEL and did mention a REVELATION by John.

It is ALSO important to note that Justin Martyr mentioned a JESUS story that contains information that is NOT found in the Canonical Gospels and claimed that the MEMOIRS of the Apostle was read in the Churches on Sundays.

Justin Martyr appear to ONLY account for REVELATION by John in the ENTIRE NT CANON.

But, REMARKABLY, within two decades, Irenaeus, who could NOT account for the MEMOIRS of the Apostles , instead PRODUCED BOGUS information about the dating, chronology, authorship and even contents of four Gospels, Acts of the Apostles, and the Pauline epistles.

AMAZINGLY The MEMOIRS of the Apostles VANISHED with Justin Martyr.

No Church writer AFTER Justin Martyr mentioned the MEMOIRS of the Apostles by name even though the CAVE birth story was mentioned by ORIGEN about 100 years later and that the CAVE was found in Jerusalem.

As soon as the writings of Justin Martyr is CLOSELY examined it will be NOTICED that he does NOT support "Church History" by Eusebius and the very Eusebius did NOT use Justin Martyr for his INVENTION.

Doug Shaver

Right, he's not.

In its plural form, that is in fact what the word usually refers to. In the singular, it can refer to just one of those books or to the message conveyed by those books collectively.

That might be in the back of the minds of people unacquainted with modern NT scholarship. Most people with a little bit of relevant education know perfectly well that Paul could not have been referring to any book wherein was written the story of Jesus' life or ministry.

Practically everyone who is at least somewhat familiar with modern scholarship knows that. It is generally understood that for Paul, "the gospel" was just the message he was preaching about the Christ.

We don't actually know whether the documents he referred to were putative Jesus biographies. He did not call them biographies, putative or otherwise. He called them "memoirs of the apostles" because, we may reasonably suppose, he believed that that was what they were.

Whether or not they were the same documents that we now call "the gospels" is open to serious debate. I think it's unlikely, myself.

Sometime in the late second century, would be my guess.

I don't think it's quite accurate to say that Paul used the word to mean the outcome of any event. I think he used the word the same way it still frequently is used, as a reference to the message that Christians are supposed to be conveying to the world, i.e. that God has provided a way for everyone to be saved from the consequences of sin.

The word euanggelion just means good news, and if you antecedently believe we all need salvation from sin, then it is indeed good news that God has provided a means of effecting it. Its application to certain books wherein is told a few particulars of how God did that was a later development, an extension of its original usage. The popular modern notion that the word originally and primarily referred to those books is a mistake.

aa5874

Not even the Canonized Gospels are called biographies. The MEMOIRS of the Apostles contain similar information found in the Gospels of the CANON and was also called "the GOSPEL".

This is Trypho in "Dialogue with Trypho" X

Justin Martyr claimed he was AWARE of the GOSPEL in "Dialogue with Trypho" XII
Mt 11:27 - The MEMOIRS of the Apostles was also called THE GOSPEL in the time of Justin Martyr.

mountainman

"Justin's" testimony may have been designed in such a manner to make the reader infer that the source called "Justin" confirms and supports the orthodox church story -- that the earliest gospel, first cab off the rank, out and in circulation ahead of the pack, was the gospel of the intrepid Matthew.

aa5874

How could that be when the supposed orthodox church could have EASILY INSERTED the names of the Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John instead of the Memoirs of the Apostles in the writings under the name of Justin Martin to DISPEL any doubt about the four Gospels?

If it is ASSUMED that the orthodox church wrote all the information about the FOUR Gospel then it would be expected that the writings of Justin Martyr would CONTAIN the very same four Gospels like Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen and others.

And further, if the Church INVENTED the FOUR Gospels or the very FIRST Gospels then there would have been NOTHING called the MEMOIRS of the Apostles.

It does not appear to be reasonable to expect that the orthodox church would have written all of Justin Martyr but FORGOT to establish that there were 4 Gospels.

aa5874

How could that be when the supposed orthodox church could have EASILY INSERTED the names of the Gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John instead of the Memoirs of the Apostles in the writings under the name of Justin Martin to DISPEL any doubt about the four Gospels?

If it is ASSUMED that the orthodox church wrote all the information about the FOUR Gospel then it would be expected that the writings of Justin Martyr would CONTAIN the very same four Gospels like Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen and others.

And further, if the Church INVENTED the FOUR Gospels or the very FIRST Gospels then there would have been NOTHING called the MEMOIRS of the Apostles.

It does not appear to be reasonable to expect that the orthodox church would have written all of Justin Martyr but FORGOT to establish that there were 4 Gospels in the writings of Justin.

Doug Shaver

I know what Justin allegedly wrote. I wrote a paper on him for one of my classes.

andrewcriddle

Yes, I think that calling the accounts of Jesus' life and teachings gospels, may involve a shift from regarding them as texts which tell us about God's revelation to regarding them as texts which actually are God's revelation.

Andrew Criddle

aa5874

I SEE what Justin Martyr wrote. I post them on this thread so people can see what he wrote.

Did NOT Justin Marty write this?

"Dialogue with Trypho" C Justin MARTYR KNEW of a SINGLE GOSPEL.

Did not Justin Martyr write this?

"Dialogue with Trypho" LXVIII Justin Martyr KNEW of a SINGLE GOSPEL and knew of a Jesus story that contains information NOT found in the four Canonical Gospel.

The MEMOIR of the Apostles appear to be most likely the first written Jesus story or a Jesus story that PREDATED the four canonical gospel.

gurugeorge

Ah that's the sort of thing I would be interested to hear about Andrew: roughly, when did this shift take place, what's the evidence for it - and why did it obtain?