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Old 11-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #51
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Do I hear an echo?!

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People believe that Moses was a great liberator, but it's just a fable.
Yet it's called "history "!!
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:00 PM   #52
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People believe that Moses was a great liberator, but it's just a fable.
Yet it's called "history "!!
It's too easy to dismiss the bible as jusst plain fiction. After all, the Iliad wasn't completely cpmstricted from whole cloth. Granted that Troy wasn't much more than a market village, that the Greek fleet probably consisted of a half-dozen leaky rafts, and the Mycenaean kings probably spent most of their time at home beating on rebellious peasants, Troy did fall, perhaps a half-dozen times and the repercussions were undoubtedly felt a dozen miles away.

Once literacy is achieved by even a small minority of a people, the folk tales become bigger than life stories of their past, along with a few totally fictional tales strewn along the way.

That's really all that the bible amounts to.
Myth is real and therefore eternal that we as temporal humans are trying to read. So the permanence of myth is never to be found in history but in our relation to it.

It so is a work of art wherein our relation is to see the art of artworks in it.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:19 PM   #53
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It's too easy to dismiss the bible as jusst plain fiction. After all, the Iliad wasn't completely cpmstricted from whole cloth. Granted that Troy wasn't much more than a market village, that the Greek fleet probably consisted of a half-dozen leaky rafts, and the Mycenaean kings probably spent most of their time at home beating on rebellious peasants, Troy did fall, perhaps a half-dozen times and the repercussions were undoubtedly felt a dozen miles away.

Once literacy is achieved by even a small minority of a people, the folk tales become bigger than life stories of their past, along with a few totally fictional tales strewn along the way.

That's really all that the bible amounts to.
Myth is real and therefore eternal that we as temporal humans are trying to read. So the permanence of myth is never to be found in history but in our relation to it.

It so is a work of art wherein our relation is to see the art of artworks in it.
A work of art is the work of men and women and it is not eternal as insures know.

A myth often is an amusing story, except when they become religion.

What degrades an invented and fragile myth and turns it into a real eternal myth?
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:14 PM   #54
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A work of art is the work of men and women and it is not eternal as insures know.

A myth often is an amusing story, except when they become religion.

What degrades an invented and fragile myth and turns it into a real eternal myth?
Yes the paint may faint but the beauty expressed is wherein the connection [with truth] is made, or maybe better is where we connect with truth in the beauty we see, simply because truth has substance while beauty is more like vapor to humans below.

Degrades? any -ism will do that and legalism and formalism, for sure, such as KJV here now for example, wherein the poetic mood is stifled and consequently the allegory subdued.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:35 PM   #55
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A work of art is the work of men and women and it is not eternal as insures know.

A myth often is an amusing story, except when they become religion.

What degrades an invented and fragile myth and turns it into a real eternal myth?
Yes the paint may faint but the beauty expressed is wherein the connection [with truth] is made, or maybe better is where we connect with truth in the beauty we see, simply because truth has substance while beauty is more like vapor to humans below.

Degrades? any -ism will do that and legalism and formalism, for sure, such as KJV here now for example, wherein the poetic mood is stifled and consequently the allegory subdued.
I expected you to notice “degrades” .Yes, turning an entertaining story into an instruction manual for the dead is a letdown.

And yes , again, it has something to do with truthfully unleaded paint.
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:41 PM   #56
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[I expected you to notice “degrades” .Yes, turning an entertaining story into an instruction manual for the dead is a letdown.
.
. . . and you said it just right!:notworthy:
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:20 PM   #57
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A Christian (or a Jew or Muslim) would probably tell you this..........

Cain and Seth were not the only sons of Adam and Eve. They were just the only two that was worth a mention in the Bible. Adam lived to be over 900 years old so let's assume Eve lived that long. If Eve could bear children until she was 700 years old, she could have been the mother to up to 700 people if she was pregnant approximately once a year.

These 350 couples (700 children divided into male/female couples by two) have 500 children, Adam and Eve would have 245,000 grandchildren. For one generation. So, the population of the earth would have grown into the millions fairly quickly. Land was abundant since they were the only people on this Earth, but yet not that spread out because they spoke one language and of one culture.

Adam lived to see nine generations of his family to the father of Noah, Lamach, all of which, except for Lamech lived to be over 900 (Lamach died young at 777 yrs. old). So how many children did all these generations produce?

There is nothing to state that Cain and Abel were the only children of Adam and Eve when the killing of Abel occured. Cain was a tiller of the ground (a farmer) while Abel was a herdsman. Now why would Cain farm and Abel have to keep so many animals for a 4 person family?

Cain married his sister or another relative because there was no one else to marry. The original prohibition from God to humanity about sexual matters was not to be a motherfucker. As in, do not have sex with your mother. Sibling sex had to be accomplished if you are the only children of a set of parents on a Planet.

Cain could also build a city because there were people and lots of people populating the earth very quickly. God protected Cain somehow by putting a mark on his forehead. Perhaps the mark was a worse punishment than death itself and Cain was a laborer and not the architect.

-----------------------------------

The same thing could be argued about Noah's three sons and wives populating the Earth quickly that Nimrod built a great city and the Tower of Babel while Shem, Noah's eldest son, was still alive. Even though the ages of the people were falling from 900 yrs. to 600, 400 to 200 and less, this is still a lot of time to repopulate the earth.
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:25 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Huon View Post
People believe that Moses was a great liberator, but it's just a fable.
Yet it's called "history "!!
false

its not called history


its called allegory and metaphors through theology and mythology
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:38 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Montgomery Scott View Post
Cain married his sister or another relative because there was no one else to marry. The original prohibition from God to humanity about sexual matters was not to be a motherfucker. As in, do not have sex with your mother. Sibling sex had to be accomplished if you are the only children of a set of parents on a Planet.
Not necessarily. God created Adam and Eve. He could have created some more people independently from the first two...
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:02 AM   #60
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Cain married his sister or another relative because there was no one else to marry. The original prohibition from God to humanity about sexual matters was not to be a motherfucker. As in, do not have sex with your mother. Sibling sex had to be accomplished if you are the only children of a set of parents on a Planet.
Not necessarily. God created Adam and Eve. He could have created some more people independently from the first two...


Lilith was the first wife of Adam in the Jewish world of myth; amusingly Eve is ‘the other woman’ in the Roman world of myth.

The giants of Genesis were the children of Lilith and Adam and the daughters of men were the children of Eve and Adam.

The descendants of Adam and Eve were born of the sinful union of the adulterous Adam. The ‘original sin’ is a polite way of saying we all descend from a bastard line.

In this Roman world of myth the cleansing of the original sin by the waters of the baptismal fountain signifies the annulment of Adam’s first marriage to Lilith and the sacramental marriage of Adam and Eve , thus making each one of us legitimate and a lawful heir to the Garden of Eden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
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