Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johann_Kaspar · 11-17-2006, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

5) Seutonius "Chrestus" - Irrelevant, could be talking about anyone, and nothing about it makes sense if applied to Jesus

Quite the opposite, it makes a lot of sense. Except if your conception of Yeshua is the xian one.

Johann_Kaspar · 11-17-2006, 03:35 AM

As to the OP, what is the percent of xians among scholars? 90%? 95%? More?

yalla · 11-17-2006, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johann_Kaspar

As to the OP, what is the percent of xians among scholars? 90%? 95%? More?

I've read maybe 300 books by scholars of Christianity. [Yes, I know I've barely scratched the surface of the topic.]
I got them from commercial bookstores, public libraries, a few from university libraries and second hand bookshops.
So maybe that is some sort of random sample of those books which deal with Christianity that are available to the general public.
Not a scientifically valid survey but indicative in a broad way I would suggest.
I would say all but 3 by G.A. Wells, 1 by Bertrand Russell and the 1 by Doherty were written by persons who are Christians of various stripes and degrees or Jewish [Vermes and Macoby for example].
Many are by persons prominent in church positions and/or practising Christians.
I just finished reading the "Oxford Companion to the Bible" Eds. Metzger and someone else and nearly all the authors of the articles therin are academics at various theological colleges etc..
cheers
yalla

Solo · 11-17-2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malachi151

No, the real issue is that its no problem to feel a kindred spirit to imaginary people, whom you idealize in your own head.

I think you have a big blind spot there, Malachi. Just because you idealize someone in your head, does not make him/her imaginary.

Jiri

gstafleu · 11-17-2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yalla

I've read maybe 300 books by scholars of Christianity. [...] I would say all but 3 by G.A. Wells, 1 by Bertrand Russell and the 1 by Doherty were written by persons who are Christians of various stripes and degrees or Jewish [Vermes and Macoby for example].

OK, so now we have (a first approximation to) a number> >98%.
Thanks yalla!

Gerard

gstafleu · 11-17-2006, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

What are some of the positive pieces of evidence that Doherty presents?

It is his whole argument. He presents a developmental model of the NT, supported by evidence, that starts with a spiritual Jesus and then moves to an HJ. As for the evidence he uses to support this, see my Doherty quotes in this thread: Arguments for and against HJ based on Paul's letters (posts 5 and 6 in that thread, if I'm counting well).

Gerard

Malachi151 · 11-17-2006, 06:29 AM

For anyone who wants to spread the gospel of the Jesus Myth, I started a thread on another site here:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/fo...p?topic=3187.0

rob117 · 11-17-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarpedon

And it may surprise you that I agree, to a point. Some gods are deified people, some aren't. I think there are two basic kinds of religions (and I am not claiming that I invented this idea): the synthetic and the cult.

A cult is started by a charismatic leader, who gathers followers to him. It emphasizes mind control, unquestioning obedience, faith, and the forbiddance of all activities and associations that are outside the cult. I think christianity is a cult, but it is so old that some of the characteristics have weakened or been eliminated.

A synthetic religion is one that was made not by a deranged person, but by intellectuals for a purpose... national unity for an example. A good example of this is the mythology created by Virgil in the Aeneid. Another would be Judaism. This sort of religion focuses on nationalism, law and order, race and family life.

There is also folk religion- gods gradually made up by cultural consensus as personifications of natural phenomena in order for people to explain things they can't understand. This is what religion probably began as. Synthetic religion is usually created by moulding folk religion to serve the purposes of the state (i.e. OT Judaism being a Yahweh-only version of the Yahweh-centric paganism of most Judeans). Cults also mould folk religion for their own purposes. In the case of Christianity it has been all three- it began as a cult emerging from folk 1st-century Judaism, gradually gained followers until some upper-class people took to it; became the state religion with Constantine and the only legal religion with Theodosius; became the religion of the masses through forced (or highly "persuasive") conversions, and thus became the basis for new cults like Mormonism, the Branch Davidians, and medieval Catharism.

RAFH · 11-18-2006, 07:44 PM

And then we have a brief pause for the time-honored ringing of the sacred bell of comprehension:

"BINGO"

We now return you to the discussion that is already in progress.

Clivedurdle · 11-19-2006, 02:42 AM

The Cathars are probably an external import because of contacts between crusaders and zarathustran ideas - not a descendant of xianity.

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11-17-2006, 03:35 AM	#82
Johann_Kaspar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: France Posts: 1,831	As to the OP, what is the percent of xians among scholars? 90%? 95%? More?

11-17-2006, 06:29 AM	#87
Malachi151 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 8,674	For anyone who wants to spread the gospel of the Jesus Myth, I started a thread on another site here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/fo...p?topic=3187.0

11-18-2006, 07:44 PM	#89
RAFH Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Kahaluu, Hawaii Posts: 6,400	And then we have a brief pause for the time-honored ringing of the sacred bell of comprehension: "BINGO" We now return you to the discussion that is already in progress.

11-19-2006, 02:42 AM	#90
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	The Cathars are probably an external import because of contacts between crusaders and zarathustran ideas - not a descendant of xianity.

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