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Old 01-20-2013, 05:49 PM   #161
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Even the name -'JESUS'- is nothing more than the half digested hay of pure fabricated christian horse shit. And that's a fact Jack.
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If anything I'd call it second hand oats from tempered horses with spirit and charm to get believers to follow, and flip pages without end to swallow it all.
Certain Believers have been deceived into swallowing horse shit. -they were warned- but allowed it anyway, and now there is a price to be paid; Revelations 17 and 18


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Old 01-20-2013, 05:51 PM   #162
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The following has been proposed as a new set of guidelines for this forum:
Participants in the Bible Criticism and History Forum are expected to comply with the FRDB Terms of Use as any other FRDB registered Members benefiting of posting privileges on FRDB. Please, consult our Guidelines before participating.

1) BCH participants are expected to source or/and document their stated position in order for discussions to meet the intended purpose of the FRDB Mission :

http://www.freeratio.org/misc.php?do=showrules#mission

"Freethought & Rationalism is a privately owned, educational information provider established for freethinkers -- especially for (but not limited to) atheists, agnostics, secular humanists and similar -- to promote rational thought as a better means to access truth."

2) Preaching/proselytizing is prohibited across FRDB. Please, make sure to include your personal commentary when quoting scriptures. Moderators will be removing posts which lack the presence of a personal analysis of the quoted scriptures.

3) In thread FRDB Staff Warnings and Notices are not to be dismissed. Dismissal of such official FRDB Staff Communications may result in a thread locking.
I'm not very sure what any of these are about. Especially #1.
I will refer you to my previous clarification :

http://www.freeratio.org/showpost.ph...8&postcount=74
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We do not want to overly stifle the discussion, or discourage honest posts or questions. But there is too much noise, too many posts that do nothing to advance the debate.
My own impression is that the forum hasn't done that well in the last couple of years. It has got rather stale. Part of this, perhaps, is the "Jesus Myth" stuff, which is a hobby position of a small group of people. I can't take it seriously, and I doubt that I am alone. The prevalence of this stuff, the presumption that it is true (which I see a lot) naturally tends to cause people to yawn and look elsewhere.

On the other hand we get posts by Acharya S or her devotees / alter egos, such as Dave31. I think we all know that her theory is nonsense. But it is advanced with such interesting claims of sources, that we can have great fun just looking into these. I've certainly learned from her; e.g. her reference to Antiochus of Athens led me to learn about ancient astrological writers. I think we all enjoyed looking into her claims about Horus. Dave31 is rather unpleasant a lot of the time; but I think that's generally managed OK?

So I think that the cranks are not necessarily a bad thing. They may bring fresh ideas, fresh questions. Even Roman Piso (is he still around) can cause us to look at stuff we would not always do.

What IS tedious is the sort of thing that MountainMan too often does. In some, perfectly interesting thread, up he pops and spouts his pet theory, adding nothing to the thread, often derailing it. It's a distraction, it's boring, it contributes nothing.
Derailing is one of prohibitions in The Terms of Use. In such case, reporting it will alert the Moderators and allow them to take the necessary action to remove the derail. We mostly rely on thread participants to report what they deem to be disruptive and violations of The terms of Use.


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He isn't introducing new evidence, as a rule (which might be interesting, and was when he did it with the Acts of Linus), but rather debunking all the ancient literature. I tend to ignore any thread he starts, and he does that a lot. I have no objection to the advancement of the theory (see what I wrote about cranks) but it has got boring.
Indeed, not feeding or fueling such repetitive topics would be helpful. If no participation to such thread, it will die off, slide off the front page and be soon forgotten.
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Your input is requested on:

1. Civility - the rules have never forbidden profanity or disrespect. However, constantly labeling something as "horseshit" does nothing for rational discussion.
I don't think civility has got any worse than it ever was. You always had to place the potty-mouthed on ignore. Mind you, I have so many people on ignore that I might not actually KNOW how bad it has got -- so bear that in mind when reading this.

The trouble with moderating on civility is that it is very easily biased, or seen to be biased. A moderator will often subconciously give more elbow-room to someone he agrees with or knows than to someone else.
We often encourage Moderators to seek a second opinion while we maintain a check and balance system for each Forum. Such system relies on having more than just one Moderator assigned to each Forum while reports are reviewed by each Section Manager. Across FRDB, Moderators are expected to rely on the content of The Terms of Use (see my above link) as their compass to guide their decisions.

Any Moderation action can be appealed in the Private Feedback Forum. Only the team of Managers and FRDB Owners have access to such private Forum in order for them to review the complaint and investigate it. Complaints include any member's observation of possible bias or/and lack of objectivity on the part of any Staff Member.



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Indeed one reason that Christian apologists don't come here is the operation of that policy. Toto may remember Metacrock from CARM who used to come here and post, and usually the thread would go in a standard way. People would gang up to provoke and abuse him, he'd respond in kind, and then HE would be warned for being uncivil. This happens in this forum a *lot*, and often to Christian visitors. Only atheists can be uncivil here, and atheists here can pretty much lynch anyone else. If that is by design, fine -- it is your forum! -- but be aware that it does limit who can participate, and on what subjects. I never express a religious opinion here, for just this reason.
Roger, such situations are totally unacceptable. The Terms of Use are supposed to protect all registered members regardless of their religious beliefs and lack of. Abuse of our theist members should be reported. This Forum, BCH, is not to be treated as an isolated island detached from FRDB. Again, mistreatment of theist members and lack of Moderation should be brought up in the Private Feedback Forum.
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2. Hobby horses - in particular the constant repetition of a claim that has been soundly defeated or rejected. (Discussing a new aspect or new evidence is not included here.)
Yes, I think we've had a lot of these lately. But ... might an answer be to have a sticky thread on each hobby horse, and obliging those interested to post in that?
I like your idea.

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And see what I said about cranks above. I am entirely happy to have people like Acharya S, Dave31, etc, posting here.
Good nature on your part.
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3. Chili - what is he talking about?
I think Chili needs to be banned, not because I disagree (or agree) with him, but for the good of the forum. I can't make any sense of any of his posts.
I will refer you back to my link above where I detailed under which circumstances and process a member would be banned. To reassure you, it certainly would not be based on a member having a style of communication difficult to comprehend.

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I think Toto gets the moderation level about right. The problem of interesting content ... well, how does one get interesting threads started?

All the best,

Roger Pearse
All the best back@ you and thank you for your productive feedback.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:12 PM   #163
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Mind you, I have so many people on ignore that I might not actually KNOW how bad it has got -- so bear that in mind when reading this...
I have often strongly disagreed with certain views. But in my 10 years here I have never placed anyone on ignore.
Life happens, perspectives change, people change, opinions change, How will you know it and honor and encourage them when they do show a lick of sense if you've closed off your eyes and covered your ears from either seeing or hearing what they have to say?

I read every thread, every post, and poster in BC&H, that is the only way to stay informed and be aware of what is transpiring. I have watched as some people here have literally quadrupled their knowledge since they arrived. I don't judge them by where they are at, but what their ethics reveal about where they are headed.
And for those who are growing and expanding in knowledge and in comprehension, I am here, urging and cheering them on.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:26 PM   #164
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Yep, I gotta admit I'm alienated from all of the Jesus horse shit that people try to peddle 'in Jesus name'.

Of course that makes me alienated from the Church, and from 'Christian America', and from popular opinion ....and that's why I'm here.

This statement is completely in English, and I believe most readers here will be able to understand it very well.
For fuck's sake Shesh, shoosh. This is a rationalist forum. I doubt if anyone here cares about your anti-christian crap. It's the sort of inappropriate nonsense in the context of BC&H that makes tergid reading for anyone who is not of your conviction. It's like an old tom pissing everywhere. It is not enjoyable. It is not informative. What's the difference in signal to noise ration between you and mm or aa? I have a long enough ignore list as is.

You don't need to trumpet your anti-christianity here. You can forget about it here, especially in this forum which is about the criticism of biblical literature and related history. It's just more horseshit.

I would like to see more reasonable rational scholarly discourse here and less pissing about. It would make the forum generally more useful.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:52 PM   #165
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Well while it may be a rationalist forum, others are invited to participate on an equal basis. I believe myself to be very rational and am therefore unwilling to play religious circumlocution games.
I am still here spin. And as you can see, I will say something other than 'Yay Ha'sooce!'

You have a long ignore list? pity. But it won't hurt my feelings at all if you place my name on it. Your loss old friend.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:09 PM   #166
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הוא מתחיל לרדת גשם .סיימו את ארון הקודש. .אמא שלך הוא חמור

I propose an academic Hebrew and Greek only forum.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:34 PM   #167
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Even the name -'JESUS'- is nothing more than the half digested hay of pure fabricated christian horse shit. And that's a fact Jack.
.
If anything I'd call it second hand oats from tempered horses with spirit and charm to get believers to follow, and flip pages without end to swallow it all.
Certain Believers have been deceived into swallowing horse shit. -they were warned- but allowed it anyway, and now there is a price to be paid; Revelations 17 and 18

Not to derail this tread any further, but to settle the shit argument for once and for all, my point here was that the passages are iconic and that is why they have charm and draw believers in, and so then: reading these passages is like nourishment to them and will reinforce faith (or what ever you want to call this). So they do not qualify as you suggest because they are nourishing . . . but 'will wither away' because they are second hand to the reader, and therefore did, and must Jesus/Christ come in the flesh, but here now 'to each one of us.'

Nobody says this better than Jn.5:29: "[You] search the scriptures in which you think you have etarnal life -- they also testify on my behalf" (but you fail to come and get it yourself, in verse 40). This verse means that they are iconic, but second hand to you now = like oats that has already been through the horse.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:01 PM   #168
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To all concerned. I'll not further discuss any of these matters within this thread.

Lets get back on track in suggesting beneficial improvements to this forum.

Personally I liked the suggestion of limiting the number of posts, or better yet, setting a total word limit to what could be posted by anyone within one day.
That should go a long way in getting rid of needless and vacuous one liners and sniping posts. And perhaps help head off many of these interminable digressions.
And also putting a rein on those obsessive posters who engage in the posting of post after post monologues. Or being bombed with 'walls' of quoted texts.
Perhaps giving all more time to spend with family and friends and experiencing the joys to be found in interacting with life in the real world.
.....Or more Facebook
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:10 AM   #169
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I disagree with a general limit on the number of posts per day. If two people are engaged in a conversation, you would expect multiple posts.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:16 AM   #170
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Maybe we should have one day a year which is kind of like a Saturnalia where posters switch identities with someone else, so I would write for Pete and Pete for me, bingo for earl, earl for bingo, roger would have to write as an atheist, sotto would have to acknowledge the sanctity of the Roman Catholic Church, the rest of the forum would have to recite the Nicene Creed but aa could keep writing in his own name because he often disagrees with himself ...
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