Mordy

The problem is both atheists and weak christians (who have no idea of what the bible teaches) dont know much about the bible. Most christians are not going to be confident unless they are really motivated and real "thinking" (I hate to use that word when referring to christians but you'd be surprised how smart in many areas some very historically ignorant people are), hardcore biblical christians, those are the true christians that have no problem with death or grief, it usually has to do with your level faith in a religion which determines your reaction if you have decieved yourself so badly that you think you're asbolutely sure death doesn't phase you. You need to observe some real hardcore christians and not the masses you see, the real christians are found in minority groups with unpopular (and mostly correct) doctrines of what the bible actually teaches.

The bible does not teach people go to heaven at death it teaches they go unconscious forever (i.e. are actually dead), and that their god will setup a kingdom in this literal uinverse, on this literal planet, that will overthrow all other kingdoms and then the faithful will be resurrected and judged worthy of life or death and the rest of mankind will be converted and those who do not wish to be so annihilated.

Ecclesiastes 9:10-Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, [ Hebrew Sheol ] where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

This one verse makes it so painfully clear the jews knew what we all knew: That death is when consciousness ceases utterly, its like sleeping you aren't aware that you are dead you just don't exist at all.

Most christians aren't even real christians to begin with, the real hardcore ones are the ones you see that aren't troubled by death but they are like 0.001% of the human population.

sullster

Mordy makes the point that there is a tiny group of "real christians" who utterly understand and believe the bible who do not feel grief at the deaths of loved ones. I assume that the rest of the believers are imposters who are just along for the ride in order to maybe get to heaven, like Pascal's Wager.


Nietzsche agrees with Mirage's point, that believes should be reading the bible fanatically if they truly wanted to attain eternity. In Nietzsche's book,"Human All too Human", there is an aphorism he wrote that if believers really thought they were bound for eternity they would all become monks or priests and do everything they could to secure the afterlife. There would not be a second to loose in this tiny life in preparing for the eternal one. Yet this is certainly not the case.

We all know that most believers go about life like all the rest of us. For my part I am appalled sometimes how believers I know, think nothing of petty theft or of saying very racist comments. I could actually respect Mordy's true christians, yet my respect would include the conclusion that they were self deluded fanatics.

Paradox

Intersting post, Mordy. This sounds very much like the views of a Jehovah's Witness (though your profile says otherwise).
Your view isn't the typical Christian belief (as you have already pointed out that your views are in the minority) and is not easily supported in the Bible.
The fact that you had to support that view by quoting Ecclesiastes demonstrates that you're on very weak ground. Much of what is written in that book are the upset groanings of a man frustrated with the futility of life and he tends to go back on most of what he says anyway, so its hard to support any doctrine from there!

There are plenty of other Scriptures that contradict the idea of "soul sleep", so we come back to the original post.

Most Christians believe that when their beloved Christian friends die, they go directly to be with Jesus, and a good many of them (despite your claims) are extremely serious about their faith. I think it is these people that the original post was aimed at. People like yourself are probably best examined separately.

Have you experienced the death of someone close? If so, and if you don't mind me asking, how did you react?