gentleexit

Colorado Springs, many parts of Texas, Orange County and the inner valleys of California, ... the source of so much Christian TV, groups etc. Mega church is a western thing (at least it started out here). Lot's of mormons in CA too. Utah, north Arizona, mormon too.

The least religious in this fine country are those horrible gay-loving Boston people. Embarrassingly they also have the lowest rates of divorce, teen pregnancy, abortion etc. But that's just a fluke or some devil trick.

kcdad

You don't. You shake the dust form your sandals and walk away. There is nothing to be gained there by either party.

Why reason with someone who is unreasonable. Just give 'em a hug and walk away.

kcdad

Ok? They want to belong and don't care what they have to accept intellectually to do so... fine. What is your problem? Are you made that you don't belong too or that they don't want to belong to your group?

skepticdude

Which was the purpose of the OP...to see if a more psychological approach would benefit, since the religion as a whole requires an emotional committement (a loving Father, a self-sacrificing Jesus, we are his children, doubt is from the devil, etc, etc.)

skepticdude

First, if my premise be accepted, that Christians don't care how much intellect must be sacrificed to be a true believer, this makes most Christians liars. Being proved a liars is an early step toward reform.

Second, you apparently don't appreciate the emotional harm that Christianity does. Hopefully you are not so gullible that you believe every fundamentalist who smiles brightly and extolls the virtues of spiritual rebirth?

Third, if and when you see fundamentalist Christians who truthfully claim to have given up gambling, porno, drinking, smoking, etc, all because of Jesus, are they telling the truth, or is their abstention from the bad habit only temporary? It's very easy to convince yourself you shouldn't do something, when you believe deep inside that it is ok and should be allowed. It's called self-deception.

The point is that you seem to be challenging me to leave Christians alone because they aren't bothering anybody, when in fact I don't live by such a nihlistic approach. I believe you SHOULD try to help if you see somebody self-destructing. How about you? Or is life too short for this?

gentleexit

But why do you believe they, in particular, are self-destructing? I mean any more than most of us at different times? Have you the same concern for the obese, the celebrity-obsessed, the twitter-addicted? Do you turn off computers and grab away bags of potato chips?

storytime

"arguments go on forever, but the Lord reigns." Then the ball is in their court, so to speak. It is their obligation to answer when challenged with questions. It is their belief that is on the line, and if they cannot provide the reasons as to their belief, then they are not skilled as knowledgeable "workmen" and shown to be inept at their task.

ComestibleVenom

It isn't just reasonable that we should fall prey to our own instinct manipulation - to think that we could have no reason to lament whatever reason we had!

Like the middle aged Thomas Hobbes you easily penetrate the rhetoricans art, but suffer by it. Later on, he acknowledged the essential usefulness that it had. So he hoped reason should not itself fail for the Savage State of Entropy. There is a good reason for street preachers and hermits who go alone into the wild. And it is not only because preachers are contageous, and hermits beyond care, but that preachers become careless and the hermit's poison is extracted from their kidney stones.

Where do you walk to on this sphere? Will one or two ill fated human voyages change in the shared direction that we tend to go.

And the brains that get a nobel prize is far from what it was when his thousanth great-granGrand-Mother was born.

andrewcriddle

If you are saying that there is a higher level of religious belief and practice in California than in Massachusetts then could you please provide statistics in support ?

Andrew Criddle

skepticdude

Of course I have feelings for people who suffer other forms of mania.

However, the fact that I cannot fix all the world's problems doesn't motivate me to simply say "fuck it". I do have more expertise and knowledge in the area of the bible than most Christians, and so, just like every other human being who wants to do her part, I do not view the little bit of good I do as trivial merely because I cant' do a perfect job, or save the entire world.

If saving the entire world wasn't your point, then what does it matter whether I'm able to help people with other psychological issues?

I can identify with fundamentalist Christians because I used to be one, and so I wish to use this experience to help those who can benefit thereby.

Your logic seems to be that it is wasteful to perform the little bit of good one can perform, because it still leaves millions of people without hope. If that wasn't your point, then what point will you make when I tell you "no, I don't go around grabbing away bags of chips from overweight people"?

You are free to hold your nihlistic viewpoint, but the argument that you should give up because you aren't superman is total bullshit in my estimation. You aren't ending starvation in Africa when you send $10 for a single child, should we simply say fuck it?

You aren't ending all rape if you become a rape crisis counselor, so should anybody with that desire simply say fuck it?

Can a paramedic save every person they come to the aid of? No. What is your suggestion? That they simply say fuck it and become selfish hedonists?

You are refuted by every person in the world. Nobody refrains from contributing the little bit of good they CAN do, on the grounds that they cannot save the entire world from the same disaster.