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Old 08-19-2007, 02:45 AM   #21
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If the disciples were told to go into all the nations of the world, then why did Jesus not go into Rome?

If Jesus purpose was to make disciples from all nations of the world, would he have not intended they become Jewish? Or do you think Jesus would have been promoting Gentilism - no laws, no covenants, and worship of other gods such as Apollo, Mercury, Jupiter, etc. ?

Even with all the screwed up text, I think the story relates how Jesus was gathering Jews and not Gentiles into his kingdom of Judaism (kingdom of God). Did Gods kingdom ever exist anywhere other than his namesake Israel in the ONE seed called Jacob?
Acording to the Morons....[sorry] Mormons, Jesus did travel elsewhere. After he left Palestine he caught a flight to the USA. I wonder if he flew first class? Anyway the Morons claim to be the new people of God. J. Smith said so.
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Old 08-19-2007, 11:29 AM   #22
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It is not a derailment to discuss the topic mentioned in the OP, especially since the thread starter mentioned the possibility that Matthew 28:19 is an interpolation which contradicts earlier statements about an Israel-only mission.
Can you show that it's a interpolation?
I never said that I can. I said that "the thread starter mentioned the possibility that Matthew 28:19 is an interpolation." To answer your question, I don't know of any textual reason to exclude it, but as Craig Keener mentions on page 717 of A Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (or via: amazon.co.uk), "many doubt the authenticity of this baptismal formula...its specific form could be a Matthean or traditional construct summarizing what they felt was Jesus' idea."
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:48 PM   #23
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Can you show that it's a interpolation?
I never said that I can. I said that "the thread starter mentioned the possibility that Matthew 28:19 is an interpolation." To answer your question, I don't know of any textual reason to exclude it, but as Craig Keener mentions on page 717 of A Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (or via: amazon.co.uk), "many doubt the authenticity of this baptismal formula...its specific form could be a Matthean or traditional construct summarizing what they felt was Jesus' idea."
There are a couple of people who quoted the ending of Matthew in early church writings. Their quotations do not include the part about making disciples of all nations and the trinitarian formula. So obviously this was a later addition to the text.
I'm sorry that I don't remember more details but seek and you shall find.

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Old 08-20-2007, 10:34 AM   #24
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There are a couple of people who quoted the ending of Matthew in early church writings. Their quotations do not include the part about making disciples of all nations and the trinitarian formula. So obviously this was a later addition to the text.
I'm sorry that I don't remember more details but seek and you shall find.

stuart shepherd
Eusebius of Caesarea particularly in his earlier works quotes the ending of Matthew in a shorter (non-Trinitarian form). IMHO this is probably because of reverence towards a sacred formula and does not imply the use of a different Greek text of Matthew


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Old 08-20-2007, 12:26 PM   #25
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There are a couple of people who quoted the ending of Matthew in early church writings. Their quotations do not include the part about making disciples of all nations and the trinitarian formula. So obviously this was a later addition to the text.
I'm sorry that I don't remember more details but seek and you shall find.

stuart shepherd
Eusebius of Caesarea particularly in his earlier works quotes the ending of Matthew in a shorter (non-Trinitarian form). IMHO this is probably because of reverence towards a sacred formula and does not imply the use of a different Greek text of Matthew


Andrew Criddle
Dear Andrew,
It would help if you could explain with a little more detail what you mean, and why you reached your opinion.

stuart shepherd
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:04 AM   #26
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In Mathew, prior to Jesus's entry into Jerusalem, Jesus says to the Disciples, ''Truly, Isay to you, in the new world, when the son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL'' [19;28] There is no mention there of any gentiles, is there.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:32 AM   #27
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Jesus was preaching to all, but demonstrating to Jews that he was the Messiah, because they had the checkable data.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:37 AM   #28
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In Mathew, prior to Jesus's entry into Jerusalem, Jesus says to the Disciples, ''Truly, Isay to you, in the new world, when the son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL'' [19;28] There is no mention there of any gentiles, is there.
No, but the twelve tribes are analogous to the full number of those saved by faith, as promised to Abraham who was accounted righteous by his faith. The gentiles in reality are those who do not have faith in Jesus, whether they are Jews or not.

The true Israelite, the true Jew, is a Christian, and everyone else is nowhere. Nothing else matters in the end.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:50 AM   #29
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Jesus was preaching to all, but demonstrating to Jews that he was the Messiah, because they had the checkable data.
Is this a statement of your faith or something you can support with specific passages from the Gospels?

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No, but the twelve tribes are analogous to the full number of those saved by faith, as promised to Abraham who was accounted righteous by his faith. The gentiles in reality are those who do not have faith in Jesus, whether they are Jews or not.

The true Israelite, the true Jew, is a Christian, and everyone else is nowhere. Nothing else matters in the end.
Same question.
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:27 AM   #30
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Jesus was preaching to all, but demonstrating to Jews that he was the Messiah, because they had the checkable data.
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Is this a statement of your faith or something you can support with specific passages from the Gospels?
What a strange question, in this forum.
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