Freethought & Rationalism Archive

zygot126 · 02-28-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatpie42

Okay, "makes it a compelling story" I can agree with. However, you weren't arguing for a compelling story, you were arguing that there was compelling evidence. Argument ad populum is not compelling evidence by any stretch of the imagination.

I have billions of people who disagree with you -

I have also one that agrees - me

Joan of Bark · 02-28-2009, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by zygot126

Actually I would say the evidence he existed is compelling

You know, every time I ask someone who says this sort of thing to supply a solid evidential case that is "compelling", they can never supply any substantive evidence whatsoever.

They can't say when their hypothetical sources were written or by whom. They can't show one historical datum that can make Jesus, the Jesus behind the gospel figure, enter history. They crap on about the existence of Jesus being the best fit (and haven't considered any other functional hypothesis), about how every movement has a leader (not willing to accept that the leader might not be the figure they want), about how several pagan sources know of Jesus (taken the pagan sources of the 2nd century as unquestionedly veracious)... We've heard it all before.

I'd say it may seem compelling until you start to examine the case or rather the lack thereof.

spin

So why do the vast majority of scholars -- even those that are atheist or agnostic -- believe in an HJ? And what makes you so much more rational than them?

spin · 02-28-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

You know, every time I ask someone who says this sort of thing to supply a solid evidential case that is "compelling", they can never supply any substantive evidence whatsoever.

They can't say when their hypothetical sources were written or by whom. They can't show one historical datum that can make Jesus, the Jesus behind the gospel figure, enter history. They crap on about the existence of Jesus being the best fit (and haven't considered any other functional hypothesis), about how every movement has a leader (not willing to accept that the leader might not be the figure they want), about how several pagan sources know of Jesus (taken the pagan sources of the 2nd century as unquestionedly veracious)... We've heard it all before.

I'd say it may seem compelling until you start to examine the case or rather the lack thereof.

spin

So why do the vast majority of scholars -- even those that are atheist or agnostic -- believe in an HJ? And what makes you so much more rational than them?

Rather than me speculating about such things, perhaps you could try the taste test: can you say what it is that makes the leading brand so popular?

spin

Joan of Bark · 02-28-2009, 08:51 PM

Well, Christianity is an easy sell. An omnipotent God will send you to a perfect heaven for eternity if you accept Jesus as your saviour and have some water sprinkled on your head. It's a little more complicated for Catholics, but not a lot more.

Then there is the aspect of childhood brainwashing from culture and parents.

And what has this got to do with my question?

spin · 03-01-2009, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joan of Bark

So why do the vast majority of scholars -- even those that are atheist or agnostic -- believe in an HJ? And what makes you so much more rational than them?

Rather than me speculating about such things, perhaps you could try the taste test: can you say what it is that makes the leading brand so popular

Well, Christianity is an easy sell. An omnipotent God will send you to a perfect heaven for eternity if you accept Jesus as your saviour and have some water sprinkled on your head. It's a little more complicated for Catholics, but not a lot more.

Then there is the aspect of childhood brainwashing from culture and parents.

And what has this got to do with my question?

Sorry, I was probably expecting too much. The leading brand in my taste test is the HJ brand, as against the non-HJ brand. "[C]an you say what it is that makes the leading brand so popular?"

spin

Clivedurdle · 03-01-2009, 05:54 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn7exBrCiUI

Jesus Christ Superstar I don't know how to love him.

Maybe the leading brand has excellent pr?

spamandham · 03-01-2009, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zygot126

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

.

That said, Jesus could just as easily never have existed. The evidence for him is not compelling. Even today, people who have no way of verifying he existed are willing to die for him, so why not the same in ancient days?

Actually I would say the evidence he existed is compelling - I would say that he rosde into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the father is a bit of a stretch

You're welcome to your opinion. I do not share it. The evidence of his existence is found first in fairy tale style stories, and in later writings that assumed those fairy tales true.

03-01-2009, 05:54 AM	#26
Clivedurdle Contributor Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 16,024	Just a man http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn7exBrCiUI Jesus Christ Superstar I don't know how to love him. Maybe the leading brand has excellent pr?

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02-28-2009, 08:51 PM	#24
Joan of Bark Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pua, in northern Thailand Posts: 2,823	Well, Christianity is an easy sell. An omnipotent God will send you to a perfect heaven for eternity if you accept Jesus as your saviour and have some water sprinkled on your head. It's a little more complicated for Catholics, but not a lot more. Then there is the aspect of childhood brainwashing from culture and parents. And what has this got to do with my question?

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