Philadelphia Lawyer

Over in one of the other fora, two posters have claimed that the early Christian church did not believe or teach that those condemned to hell were subjected to actual, physical tortures (most prominently, fire) for eternity. Origen and Gregory of Nyssa are presented as two church fathers who disagreed with this doctrine. The sources (example) that I have seen indicate that Origen and Gregory of Nyssa were exceptions, and that the consensus of the church fathers was that hell was eternal and the tortures associated with it were real and physical. I ask the posters on this board to comment on this isssue, and I thank you in advance for sharing your knowledge.

Half-Life

"Anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell." (Matthew 5:22, quoting Jesus)

"And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." (Matthew 5:29, quoting Jesus; see parallel passage in Mark 9:44, which adds, "where the fire never goes out.")

"Do not be afriad of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28, quoting Jesus)

"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 13:40-42, quoting Jesus)

"Throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Parable of the Talents, Matthew 25:30)

"Then he [the King] will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Parable of the Sheep and the Goats, Matthew 25:41)

"The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell." (James 3:6)

"The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:13-15)

"The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile...the idolaters and all liars - their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulpher. This is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

Got those quotes from your link. Many argue that Hel is not eternal but these quotes seem to indicate that it is. Would any of you guys who believe Hell is not eternal care to explain these versus please?

Philadelphia Lawyer

I appreciate your response, but I'm trying to limit this thread to what the early Church taught and believed, not what the New Testament says. I'm trying to get the answer to a historical question, not prompt an argument about the interpretation of the Bible.

Doug Shaver

Not a problem. You quote from three books. Those verses represent the opinions of the three men who wrote those books.

Chili

A better question to ask first is what their definition of eternity was. If it is the end of 'this age' it will begin on the day that we are born into eternal life that ends with the second death with the first death pertaining only to the old sin nature unto which eternal life was born.

In this context will the hell fire passages cited by Half-Life make a lot more sense and it even makes heaven a better place to be.

Philadelphia Lawyer

Again, I request that posters on this thread please stick to answering the question I asked in the OP.

Does anyone have an informed opinion as to what the early Church taught about the nature of hell?

robto

Problem: The NT was a big part of "what the early Church taught and believed", so it's hard to answer your question while ignoring the NT. The early Xians were all over the map about Hell, which leads one to think that the interpretation of Half-Life's passages was not so obvious to them back then. In fact, those passages can be interpreted in terms of eternal life vs. death/non-being, rather than in the current sense of eternal life vs. eternal torture. With the limited sources available on early Xty, I don't think you can really talk about a "consensus view."

Amaleq13

This is an entirely reasonable request folks. And, unless I am mistaken, "informed" means "supported by specific references, preferably ancient".


Amaleq13 BC&H moderator

Chili

It is a reasonable request and I am suggesting that in the proper meaning of the word eternal the traditional burning at the stake was an effort to end the eternal physical suffering in hell.

Amaleq13

Unless you are claiming that some early Christians held this view and have evidence supporting the claim, this is entirely irrelevant to the OP.