Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sauron · 04-20-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3DJay

Doh! Forgot about the Jewish mother guilt trip stereotype! That would explain why they always picked up after themselves.

Peace

[brooklyn accent]
"Whatever you're doing, stop it and come inside. You might hurt yourself."
[/brooklyn accent]

Sauron · 04-20-2007, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED DAVE

Let's not forget, that we are entering into a round of debate with a person who believes that a 6'4" Black transvestite who sees visions in the clouds, is actually the Messiah.

Well, that certainly explains a lot.

If a 6'4 black transvestite is the messiah, that means that Ru Paul must actually be John the Baptist. "Make ye straight the (run)way of the LORD."

xaxxat · 04-20-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron

Well, that certainly explains a lot.

If a 6'4 black transvestite is the messiah, that means that Ru Paul must actually be John the Baptist. "Make ye straight the (run)way of the LORD."

Oh, I see... It's that dual messiah thingy... Kewl.

3DJay · 04-20-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

I read this and it's about when nomads settled into cities. It's not applicable.

But, they settled on former temporary camps.

Quote:

Further, your Kenyon Jericho quote needs more context, that is, it does not specific which level at Jericho is under discussion. The 1550 BCE destruction level is not the LBIIA level she assigns to Joshua, which is specifically dated for the LBIIA occupation level she dates between 1350-1325BCE. She is not associating the 1550BCE destruction level with Joshua.

http://www.netours.com/jrs/2003/jericho-debate.htm

Quote:

According to Kathleen Kenyon, this city was destroyed (along with many others in the country) when the Egyptians established control in Canaan after driving out the Hyksos -- an event usually dated to 1550 BC, long before the time of Joshua. She finds no city at Jericho again until the 11th century, well after the time of Joshua.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jericho

Quote:

One of the first modern archaeologists to reassess the Jericho remains was Kathleen Kenyon, who significantly disagreed with Garstang's dating, and dated the destruction he had found close on 1000 years earlier[1] She noted 15 different destructive episodes in the Bronze Age remains, and did find a much later destruction, but concluded it was circa 1550. From 1550, the mid 16th century BC, to about 1200 the site was virtually a ghost town, and even after 1200 it was inhabited for some time on a modest scale. Kenyon's conclusions while by no means undisputed are the current orthodoxy among archaeologists. [2]

http://www.utexas.edu/courses/wilson...p/jericho.html

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She concluded, as had Sellin and Watzinger before her that the Biblical account of the conquest of Jericho was untenable.

Quote:

But thanks for the post, this confirms RC14 dating was used here and thus RC14 dating harmonizes with her dating for the fall in 1350-1325 BCE for the Israelites.

Quote:

In 1995, Hendrik J. Bruins and Johannes van der Plicht used high-precision radiocarbon dating for eighteen samples from Jericho, including six samples of charred cereal grains from the burn layer, and overall dated the destruction to an average 1562 BC plus or minus 38 years.(Radiocarbon Vol. 37, Number 2, 1995.)[9][10]

Quote:

Thanks, again, for the links but none of them address findings of wandering people and evidence found in the wilderness where they had temporary settlements. Permanent settlements established by them that have been discovered don't count. I'm looking for bones found in ancient wilderness grave sites that they must have had. Thousands of bones found buried in the sand, that type of thing.

You mean like burial mounds...think I had some of those. What about evidence of sedentary towns sprouting from temporary camps...think I had some of those. What about finds in nomadic areas, showing they interacted with neighbouring sedentary societies...think I had some of those. Still not happy?

Masters of the Plains
Archaeology and the Shasu Nomads

Quote:

In this paper, we present new information concerning what we believe are the remains of an extensive cemetery in southern Jordan that belonged to the Shasu nomads and can be dated to the Early Iron Age II.

Gold of the Nomads

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Buried Treasures
Much of what is known about the Scythians has been uncovered through archaeological excavations of their burial mounds, known as kurhany. Ongoing explorations of kurhany continue to recover an astonishing wealth of gold and silver objects, ranging from horse trappings to armor, weaponry, jewelry and ceremonial adornment. Early finds of Scythian gold artifacts in the 1700s were so stunning that Catherine the Great ordered their systematic study, launching what became the field of Scythian archaeology. Some of the most extraordinary finds were uncovered only in the last two decades, and excavations continue on an ongoing basis to explore some of the more than 40,000 kurhany still unexcavated in Ukraine.

Safaitic Database, Syria (1994-2006)

Quote:

The Safaitic inscriptions are graffiti carved by nomads on the rocks of the desert in southern Syria, eastern Jordan and northern Saudi Arabia from 1st-4th Century AD. They are the only first-hand source for information about the history, way of life and language of these nomads. This project will create an electronic database of all known Safaitic inscriptions (about 30,000) making it possible to produce new editions of the inscriptions as well as indexes and concordances of their content.

Peace

Cheerful Charlie · 04-20-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

Thanks for all those specific LINKS to the research, but I am reading up on this. I was just thinking what would be expected, scientifically speaking, of a body, wrapped in cloth, a man so no jewelry per se, placed in an isolated but shallow grave covered with dirt. What would we expect to find after ten years? 50 years? 100 years? 500 years? Would there be any bones left? Would worms and ants have eaten everything up? Would there be any way to tell a body had been buried there?

What would be the Google topic to find out about that?

Finally, I'll again note that it seems to me that a lot of confirmation of the Jews and their history comes from corroborating pagan records from Babylon and Assyria that interacted with them after they became a strong presence and built some major cities. But that was not the case right after they left Egypt, with much dependent solely on archaeology to establish this period. It's rather startling even that Shishak's inscription suddenly matches the state of Israel in all its glory as if a major people and kingdom just appeared out of nowwhere. I can't help but to think the deficiency in archaeological "evidence" has to do with the that culture and the region.

Even so, the more details we know particularly about the region would be helpful. I'll read up on the "wilderness of Zin" trek, but if you have a quick link in particular you want me to review, that would be nice. Thanks.

I think something should have been left too, but there may be a reason why we're not finding what we are expecting.

LG47

The Israelites despoiled their Egyptian neighbors on the way out,see Exodus. they had gold to melt down for that golden calf, and pottery,and
baskets to gather that manna.The OT says none of that generation of Israalites saw the promised land,all died. That is 2,400,00 graves. Graves do last and bones do last. A number of later intrusive graves were found at jericho for example.Garbage pile, middens, containing broken pottery and animal bones, old fireplace ashes and other debris does not disappear, that always lasts and can build up to sizable piles.

CC

Sauron · 04-20-2007, 11:49 PM

2.5 million people camped in one location for 38 years? that's five times the population of metropolitan Seattle, parked in one area. With their livestock. For 38 years. I expect a lot of things to be left behind.

Larsguy47 · 04-22-2007, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sauron

2.5 million people camped in one location for 38 years? that's five times the population of metropolitan Seattle, parked in one area. With their livestock. For 38 years. I expect a lot of things to be left behind.

What sort of things? Gold bracelets? Solid gold statues?

LG47

Sauron · 04-22-2007, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larsguy47

What sort of things? Gold bracelets? Solid gold statues?

LG47

Go back and check the original thread where the quote came from. I already listed items there, which (of course) you ignored.

Spanky · 04-22-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xaxxat

Uhm, why would the Messiah (LG47 variant) need archaeological evidence when he was supposedly there when this all happened?...

LG47, why don't you just look in the mirror and ask yourself?

:huh:

What did I miss guys? Did Larsguy really claim this?

Toto · 04-22-2007, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanky

What did I miss guys? Did Larsguy really claim this?

Check the Elsewhere forum

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04-20-2007, 11:49 PM	#76
Sauron Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: In the dark places of the world Posts: 8,093	2.5 million people camped in one location for 38 years? that's five times the population of metropolitan Seattle, parked in one area. With their livestock. For 38 years. I expect a lot of things to be left behind.

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