Larsguy47

Say, maybe the Jews were a "clean" people who picked up afterthemselves and didn't have a lot of disposables. Their clothes lasted for for 40 years and didn't wear out. So just what would they be leaving behind. What if they burned their refuse and scattered the ashes or left them to blow away in the wind? Maybe they dismantled their camp fires.

So what great quantity of evidence would you be looking for? Have you seen a beach after a huge holiday pic-nic? Lots of evidence. But if you clean it up and remove everything, there's NOTHING! Just a pristine beach. You never know 1000 people were there the day before. I think they were very clean and buried what they didn't burn, but they were traveling light and reusing the usual disposables.

Besides that, the Jewish people came from SOME WHERE by the time of Solomon. Egypt is as good a place any any other I would suspect. They didn't just materialize out of nowhere, right?

Thanks for the input!

Regards,

Larsguy47

Larsguy47

Thanks for the recommend. But I will say, it is from Rohl that I first became aware of the KTU 1.78 text. But I had a little more experience with astronomical texts than that group and they didn't realize what they were looking at. Turns out the text translation was more "Egyptian" than Sumerian and with that translation the first reference they translated as "put to shame" actually indeed was a reference to six/sixth: btt. But in Egypt who had the concept of the 24-hour day, it would have been a reference to the hour, day, and month, in which case there is no match for this eclipse except the 1375BCE eclipse, which occurrs in the 6th hour between 5am and 6am. When this was presented to Rohl's disscussants they subsequently dropped the eclipse as a key reference. So that I consider progress.

In this case with Rohl, though, I have the "conventional" dating and chronology in my corner and now the Rehov dating which is profoundly absolute in this case. So this chronology is not nearly as drastic as David's but I owe some of the spirit of investigation and considering possibilities to him and even Israel Finkelstein though I don't agree on point with their conclusions.

My challenge was to find whatever historical or archaeological evidence agreed as closely with the implied Biblical chronology I came up with, so that was my point of reference. So far so good, especially with Akhenaten and Egypt.

Larsguy47

gregor

Try the hills of southern Judah.
Try Dever or Finkelstein, too.

Larsguy47

No. That's what's so fantastic about this reference. It's extremely specific. It's not like the usual RC14 dating of some beams that were found burned and they have to factor in a large error margin. This was short-lived grains in large quantity that seems to have been a very clean dating range. There's a 54-year gap between 925 and 871BCE and this reference, as you can see from the chart (did you look at the CHART? provided for a reason, :>) it peaks out very specifically to just about 4-7 years at about 100% probability.

That ACCURACY comparison even for the short time of 50 years shows what having a great sample of short-lived grains produces. It's amazing.

Thanks for your comment.

Larsguy47

DanBZ

Here's my take on the subject:

My biggest reason for not believing the exodus comes from the plagues. Not only is there no evidence for the plagues, but plagues would be expected to leave a lot of evidence behind.

Many hisotrian have noted that the Egyptians did not write about their defeats. However, the plagues would leave behind evidence other than just Egyptian records.

The plagues I have in mind here were animal disease, hail, and locusts. According to the Bible, all of the crops and animals were killed by these plagues. And because of the wording the Bible uses (specifically, it gives no indication of time), it can be inferred that it is claiming that they happened one after the other over a short period of time.

If all of the crops and animals were killed, Egypt is left with two possible fates: it experiences a widespread famine, or it buys food from other nations to survive. If there was a famine, there would be physical evidence (such as mass graves, sudden changes in settlements that indicated a massive population decline, etc.) and othert nations would have taken note (because Egypt, was, after all, a prominent nation). If Egypt bought food from other nations to survive, those other nations would have recorded the event. I believe tha fact that none of these things happened is powerful evidence that the plagues did not happen.

RED DAVE

From Larsguy47:
We are talking about shit and slit trenches. The Jews were allegedly camped at Kadesh Barnea for years. Are you trying to say that a group of a million or more people could camp in the same place for any period of time and not leave remains. Among other things, the generation that left Egypt was supposed to have died out. Where are the million plus graves?

Camps have been found in the Negev dating from the Bronze Age that held small groups of people. How could this horde, 2/3 the population of Manhattan, not be detected?

From Larsguy47:
1) You're are engaged in really dumb speculation. Do you really believe that garments made from wool could last forty years in the desert? C'mon!

2) Can you come up with a source for this fantasy?

From Larsguy47:
I think you are engaging in thoughtless speculation. You have no evidence for this beside the fact that it would be impossible. If one million people "buried what they didn't burn" the burial sites would be present all over southern Israel.

From Larsguy47:
Right. And Wrong. They came from Canaan: a Canaanite people with a Canaanite language, Canaanite religion and Canaanite social practices. There is no evidence in Hebrew language, religion or social customs for any long stay in Egypt.

From Larsguy47:
You're welcome. I await your reply. It will enliven the coming Passover season.

RED DAVE

Dean Anderson

Where do you get that value of 215 years from?

The Bible is quite clear (in Exodus 12:40) that the Exodus happened 430 years after the Hebrews entered Egypt (which would make it 437 years after Joseph is given his royal duty, and 450 years after Joseph enters Egypt as a slave).

If you are not using the explicit Biblical figure of 430 years, where are you getting your figure of 215 years from?

Are you dating the Exodus based on an independent record of 215 years, or is the 215 year figure simply reverse-engineered to make the Exodus fit where you want it (the start of Akhenaton's reign)?

Once again, where does this 215 year figure come from? It can only "confirm" that the Exodus happened in the year that Akhenaten became Pharaoh if it is from an independent source. Without an independent source, it appears that someone simply arbitrarily decided that Akhenaten was a good candidate and back-calculated the 215 years, in which case it "confirms" nothing and it is borderline dishonest to present it as if it does.

JoyJuice

After reading the thread title I clicked on it because I thought it may be good for a chuckle......I have not been disappointed.

xaxxat

2 million people spending 38 years at Kadesh-Barnea without leaving a trace? It must be another miracle!

Steven Avery

And that view I will second .. an appreciation for the spirit of investigation.

To prevent any confusion from Toto's comment .. my views are also not
for the Rohl chronology per se and I have never brought his views to
this forum.

Shalom,
Steven Avery