Johnny Skeptic

I do not need to claim corruption or to make any conjectures. All that I need to do is ask you for credible evidence that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, was born of a virgin, never sinned, and that his shed blood remitted the sins of mankind. Those are four of the most important fundamental claims in the entire Bible, but they are completely non-verifiable except by faith. Why do you accept so many non-verifiable assertions? What non-Biblical, non-Christian evidence do you have that Jesus healed people? First hand or second hand evidence would be best.

Orthodox_Freethinker

<accusation deleted> The historicity of the New Testament is verifiable.

Toto

Since you assert this, you have the burden of proof. Please start a thread that shows that the NT can be verified historically.

John A. Broussard

Really? How?

By "verifiable" you mean that there is some source (archaeological evidence, Roman documents, astronomical support for the star of Bethlehem?), other than the New Testament which covers and supports all of the statements made in the NT.

I've never heard of such a source, so I'm looking forward to your answer.

Steven Carr

He can start off with historical verification of Paul going to the 3rd heaven.

Or historical verification that Stephen in Acts could physically see the resurrected Jesus in Heaven. Why would Stephen die for a lie?

John A. Broussard

Good point.

Why would anyone immolate themselves for allah unless those 72 waiting virgins were a fact?

Derec

Forget it. "Historcially verifiable" for apologists (and those that repeat apologists' arguments) means that the narrative contains some verifiable facts. You know, general facts about land and times, such as name sof the kings or geographic details.
Of course, by that criterion they would have to accept Count of Monte Christo as historical. After all, the kings it mentions are historical fact, the city of Marseille really existed at the time and was a port city.

Derec

Diogenes the Cynic

My guess is that O_F will trot out William Ramsay.

Orthodox_Freethinker

Assessing the reliability of the Gospels themselves, in whether or not their writers can be trusted in their testimony.

THE STAR OF BETHLEHEM: AN ASTRONOMICAL AND HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE
By Susan S. Carroll
http://sciastro.net/portia/articles/thestar.htm

"Various astronomical explanations have been advanced for the Star of Bethlehem, with a number of events known to have happened around the time of Jesus' birth (which has itself not been pinpointed). Suggested candidates have included..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_of_Bethlehem

What many seem to forget is that the New Testament was compiled decades after its books were written. Why not treat each individual book as an independent witness?

RUmike

Orthodox Freethinker:

Have you ever tried locating what house a star is over, like the Magi?