Jayhawker Soule

I found this interesting.

Koyaanisqatsi

Interesting, but flawed.

1. It is a Christian apologetics website devoted to reconciling the synoptic accounts
2. It assumes Lukan primacy, without reason, other than they claim it solves certain problems
3. Luke makes it clear that the chief priests and magistrates and elders are the ones from the Temple, thus contradicting the idea that they were not The Great Sanhedrin (i.e., the high mucky-mucks), but merely a lesser group
4. We still have the same problem of the crowd inexplicably turning against Jesus; the same crowd that the chief priests and magistrates and elders are afraid of and yet now mingle with to incite
5. We still have the same problem of Pilate listening to the crowd at all
6. We still have the same problem of there being a Roman tradition of letting a guilty man go free at Passover
7. And we still have the same problem of Pilate agreeing to free a murderer/seditionist against Rome in favor of crucifying a completely innocent man

Even if there were such a tradition, it would be unthinkable for a Roman Procurator to let a murderer/seditionist go free in order to appease a crowd of Jewish slaves. If Barabas were a murderer/seditionist, it would have meant that he murdered Roman citizens or, more probably, Roman soldiers during his seditionist acts.

Just look what we did to David Koresh and a church full of women and children when he and his group (allegedly) killed ATF agents. And we're supposed to be civilized.

In fact, I found nothing of substance on that site that answers any of the problems I raised in Mark (or, by extension, Matthew), other than an admission that the sequence before Pilate's trial was probably not an official trial by The Great Sandhedrin (as they put it), but more of an interrogation.

Jayhawker Soule

Those bastards!
Thanks for the input.

Koyaanisqatsi

Indeed.

No, no. Thank you.

Vorkosigan

Koy has done an admirable job dissecting the historical aspects. Let's take a poke at the literary ones.

Gerd Ludeman, in Jesus After 2000 Years, deconstructs the passage as a purely literary invention. He notes that there is a parallel structure between the two trials, in fact, almost perfectly parallel. This suggests literary invention of the Sanhedrin trial (he arbitrarily accepts that the Pilate trial is real). Thus, verse by verse,

• Sanhedrin...............Pilate
• 14.53a.................... 15.1
• 14.55......................15.3
• 14.60......................15.4
• 14.61a....................15.5
• 14.61b....................15.2
• 14.62......................15.2
• 14.64......................15.15
• 14.65......................15.16-20

Ludeman's conclusion: "It follows from the observations on the history of the tradition that the historical value of the pericope is nil, apart from verse 58." Ludemann also notes that Jesus' attitude toward the Temple must have provoked the Jewish authorities, but there is no mention of that in the present passage.

I don't think Ludemann has really thought his point through. If the Sanhedrin trial is a literary invention, so must Pilate's trial be.

Nope, I'm wrong; see below.

Mark has also sandwiched Peter's denial between the two trials, an obvious lesson to his readers, contrasting Jesus' foredoomed fearlessness with Peter's complete wuss-out.

As for Pilate's trial, Ludemann simply notes that "The scene is unhistorical and an example of how history has been inferred from prophecy." He also points out that the custom of releasing a prisoner is unknown.

Hope this helps.

Vorkosigan

Roller

Excellent! Excellent analysis!

Alleged OT prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus were forcefully stretched by gospel writers to fit the narrative. Rlogan mentioned Psalm 22, but it is enough to see that 22:16 says "Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me,
they have pierced my hands and my feet." But the NRSV says " For dogs are all around me; a company of evildoers encircles me. My hands and feet have shriveled;" John himself said, regarding the breaking of the bones of Jesus, John 19:36, "These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled:"Not one of his bones will be broken"