Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

It needs to be noted that it is NOT evident that Mary ever wrote any of these passages.

The writers could easily make 'Mary' say whatever it was that they wished her to have said.

Thus nothing in the passages cited is to be trusted as being truly indicative of 'Mary's' own state of mind or her willingness.

The poor girl was only a subject of, and a victim of these anonymous writers screwy religious imaginations.

Originally Posted by Scotsguy44

I looked at your link and find that it agrees with an approx age of 13.3 - 15 for the onset of puberty in Jerusalem (and I presume by extension other areas in the same country).

Thanks
Matt

Originally Posted by Vorkosigan

You're so wonderfully predictable, Matt.

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

[Mary and Jesus of nazareth] are no more 'historical' than are the figures and stories of 'Isis and Horus', 'Juno and Mars' or 'Jack and Jill'.

Originally Posted by Herodotus, Clio

The Myth of Jackolaus and Jillian. It is said by the ancients that Jackolaus and Jillian were once actual people and their tombs are proudly displayed by the inhabitants of Mt Tabor in Palestine and Mt Ararat in Armenia. Personally, I find such tombs offensive, as these figures represent the tragedy of a great myth. For all, no matter how great or small, at least attempt to ascend the hill of life. For those who reach the zenith, like mighty Zeus atop Mt Olympus, may at will hurl thunder bolts at whoever has displeased him, for good or ill. And Jackolaus was such a man. But the fate of the mighty is fleeting, and like a candle is snuffed, as one more powerful also ascends, and seeks to thrust the king from his throne. It is said that another greater than he, Hank was his name, approached him with a mighty rush, and pushed him from the top of that hill, and he fell and the crown on his head was broken, although others say it has his head that was bruised, and required 12 stitches. And that one is remembered to this day as Hank Hill, also as the King of the Hill, and his story is still told in syndication.

Yet no man reaches such height without the support and encouragement of his mate, who pushes him to greatness. But she, Jillian is her name, though sitting in the royal court of Jackolaus, and holding the very keys to his storehouse of lightening bolts, found no favor with Hank, who had a mate suitable to him in Peggy, and was, like her husband, thrown from the pinnacle. For left powerless, she was not able to make use of the mighty lightening bolts. And though so close to the means of their salvation, could do naught, and so tumbled after Jackolaus, and tended to his wounds, if he really suffered such. And so, it is said in Crete, on the last day of October each year, she takes a hollowed gourd, and cuts eyes, nose and mouth, and with a candle within, shines it forth in rememberance of Jackolaus, and they call it a Jack-o-lantern. But only for one night, for the gourd is then smashed onto the road above town, and the remnants roll toward the city square, as a memorial to the bruise Jackolaus is said to have suffered, and Jillian's tumble in his wake.

Originally Posted by Scotsguy44

...I am not arguing that anything in the text actually occurred as recorded but only that from what is recorded Mary is said to have given explicit consent and indeed in her following song of praise said to have shown great jubilation, joy and happiness at what had happened. Both are fatal points to any suggestion or charge that she was 'raped'.

Thanks
Matt

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

There is no such thing as a 'historical' Mary, mother of any 'historical' Jesus of Nazareth.

Originally Posted by Scotsguy44

I put these questions to the maker of the YouTube video and his response was to the effect that it was but satire.

Originally Posted by Doug Shaver

Oh, I agree. But in that case, there could have been no rape, could there? If she was just a figment of a writer's imagination, then she wasn't raped unless the writer said she was raped.

Originally Posted by fatpie42

...the idea that Mary was a virgin clearly originates in a translation error.

Originally Posted by aa5874

So, are you arguing that it was FORNICATION?

I don't see where it is stated that Mary was married to the Ghost.

Based on the story, Mary was "engaged" to Josephus and happily consented to have a Ghost Child.

The conception of Jesus in the Gospels was a SINFUL ACT. Mary and the Ghost were NOT Married.