Freethought & Rationalism Archive

yalla · 12-28-2005, 02:31 AM

Possibly a gentle de-rail.
On the subject of chickens.
Apparently [my knowledge of Judaism is skimpy at best] they are regarded as "clean''. But by their clawing the ground habit they can expose unclean critters, bugs and the like.
Hence they were prohibited in the holy city of Jerusalem.
So "Mark's'' reference to cock crow in the gospel is not possible.

jackrabbit · 12-28-2005, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

But chickens won't eat some of the stuff that pigs will, right?

Well, I can't do a comparison because I haven't been around pigs, so I have no idea of the relative filthyness. And admittedly (and thankfully!), I was just visiting the hatchery. But from what I saw and what my grandfather said, I just can't think of chickens as being "clean" in any sense. I am lucky that my dad hated chickens or I might have grown up in that stench.

premjan · 12-28-2005, 05:18 AM

But the filth you saw might be related to crowded assembly line conditions.

jackrabbit · 12-28-2005, 05:31 AM

Well, perhaps. But this was back in the fifties. I don't know if the assembly line concept had been invented yet. Yes, there were a lot of chickens in the building, but probably not as many as nowadays. I can't remember how tightly they were packed together.

premjan · 12-28-2005, 05:43 AM

My guess is that a chicken (or jungle fowl really) eats worms and grains, whereas a pig or hog would eat roots, but also scavenge whatever it could, such as carrion.

jackrabbit · 12-28-2005, 06:06 AM

In an earlier post, you said that pigs would eat anything. I'm just saying that chickens will too, including shit.

premjan · 12-28-2005, 06:14 AM

OK then. I'm off all farm animals basically. Unless you think goats and cows are really clean (I don't think so).

Kosh · 12-28-2005, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

2. The position promoted by most skeptics, based upon "The Documentary Hypothesis", that most or all of the laws were invented far latter than the time of Moses by the Levitical priesthood, which therefor came to, and held their power over the Israelite people without any actual approval by YHWH or Moses, but by the employment of deception and outright fraud.
This of course is also irreconcilable with the respect paid to Moses and to the Scriptures throughout the entire NT.

:rolling:

As if they would have had knowledge about the authenticity of authorship claims for the Torah....

jackrabbit · 12-28-2005, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

OK then. I'm off all farm animals basically. Unless you think goats and cows are really clean (I don't think so).

I'm just saying that animals are animals. Maybe pigs are worse, maybe they aren't. That's why we cook meat.

The theory I heard for the fact that pig meat apparently made people sicker was that pigs are closer to humans genetically than other animals and could catch more of the same diseases. I remember reading this decades ago. Don't know enough comparative genetics to evaluate its validity.

But whether it was that or the dirtyness thing, it is likely that the "unclean" gag was a result of observing greater health problems associated with pigs and wrapping religion around it.

premjan · 12-28-2005, 08:09 AM

Actually goats are a little better since they shit in nice little spherical droppings so there is no danger of getting it all over themselves. But they are murder on the ecology.

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12-28-2005, 02:31 AM	#31
yalla Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: oz Posts: 1,848	Possibly a gentle de-rail. On the subject of chickens. Apparently [my knowledge of Judaism is skimpy at best] they are regarded as "clean''. But by their clawing the ground habit they can expose unclean critters, bugs and the like. Hence they were prohibited in the holy city of Jerusalem. So "Mark's'' reference to cock crow in the gospel is not possible.

12-28-2005, 05:18 AM	#33
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	But the filth you saw might be related to crowded assembly line conditions.

12-28-2005, 05:31 AM	#34
jackrabbit Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston Area Posts: 3,813	Well, perhaps. But this was back in the fifties. I don't know if the assembly line concept had been invented yet. Yes, there were a lot of chickens in the building, but probably not as many as nowadays. I can't remember how tightly they were packed together.

12-28-2005, 05:43 AM	#35
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	My guess is that a chicken (or jungle fowl really) eats worms and grains, whereas a pig or hog would eat roots, but also scavenge whatever it could, such as carrion.

12-28-2005, 06:06 AM	#36
jackrabbit Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston Area Posts: 3,813	In an earlier post, you said that pigs would eat anything. I'm just saying that chickens will too, including shit.

12-28-2005, 06:14 AM	#37
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	OK then. I'm off all farm animals basically. Unless you think goats and cows are really clean (I don't think so).

12-28-2005, 08:09 AM	#40
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Actually goats are a little better since they shit in nice little spherical droppings so there is no danger of getting it all over themselves. But they are murder on the ecology.

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