EGGO

"Everything happens for a reason"

Does this totally contradict the freewill argument? I have no stand on this, and I'm just curious. That's why I'm asking.

DBT

To me it looks like a contradiction,'everything' happening for a reason implies that God has an agenda and is controlling events.

seebs

In general, there's an assumed limitation which is that this refers to things which "happen", not moral choices.

But yeah, it is somewhat contradictory in spirit.

DBT

What if you tried to make a 'moral choice' that does not fit into Gods plan?it would be a spanner in the works.
Remember-'everything' happens for a reason.

Kenneth

Does it contradict the freewill argument?

Hard to say, so many missing facts.

What do they mean by reason? Does it mean fate? If it does then the statement could be rephrase as "Everything happens because it was fated." That would certainly contradict their freewill argument.

Or is this statement "Everything happens for a reason" the same as the universally accepted statement "that for every action there is an oppsite and equal reaction." (It's not really a Christian phrase, more like a universally accepted axiom.)

That you are fat to day is because of some rational explanation: lifestyle, genes, diet, etc.

If that is the case, how could "everything happens for a reason" contradict freewill.

You choose your actions, but not the consequences. You could cram you C++ exam in one night, but you could not hope for an A+ in tomorrow's exam.

As they say in Values Class, "if you pick one end of the stick, you also pick up the other end." There is just no other way.

Ottman Out

It depends on what you think about omniscience, omnipotence, and free will. Here is one possibility:

God knows everything that will happen. Out of all the worlds God could have created, he created this one because the outcome of this world maximizes whatever function God uses to evaluate possible worlds. Even though God knows what they will do, people are still said to have free will, because given ever so slightly different circumsances (in a different possible world), people would choose a different action (and they can legitimately say, "I would have chosen differently if only ...").

Given this sort of worldview, does everything happen for a reason? I think so, in the sense that if anything happened differently, it would mean that God's function would not be maximized.

Rational BAC

I don't think God does know the future. Just a very good guesser.. That does not mean that God is not omniscient----just that that type of omniscience is impossible.

It is quite possible that given the necessary limitations of this universe, or any universe, knowledge of the future is impossible-----by any entity.

Certain and absolute knowledge of the future sounds like a fairy tale made up by man. --- That God would laugh at.

I can imagine God saying------- "Come on guys. That just can't be done. Get over it"

EGGO

For the most part (I even asked my girlfriend this), it's understood as fate.

Then what type of omniscience are you talking about? Dictionary.com says that omniscience is Having total knowledge; knowing everything

Then He is not omniscient.

Take it a step further to the christian god.

B...but I thought he loved us... :boohoo:

DBT

quote;
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Originally posted by Kenneth

What do they mean by reason? Does it mean fate? If it does then the statement could be rephrase as "Everything happens because it was fated." That would certainly contradict their freewill argument.
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For the most part (I even asked my girlfriend this), it's understood as fate.
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Thats what I assumed,if something happens for a reason it implies purpose,planning and as we mortals are not the ones doing it all-earthquakes,droughts,etc it would have to mean fate.

The_Unknown_Banana

One could have total knowledge about everything in the present, and still not be able to determine the future. This seems even more apparent to me if you believe in free will.

I like rational's view. It's a little like some views on God's omnipotence - he can do anything, but only if it is logically possible. (ie. no making rocks so heavy that he can't lift it) Knowing the future with 100% certainty might be logically impossible, who knows.

It does kinda mean that not everything happens for a reason though... maybe "everything" could mean every universal law or something..?