djrafikie

The pantheistic bit can be easily checked out, just read the bible!
(if adam ate the apple men would become "as gods" (not god, bear in mind only one man existed, it is the plural).


the idea of sacrifice is not enjoined by pagans, it is actually our heritage

http://www.factmonster.com/dictionar...ine-pagan.html

and in addition, the christian ideas realting to paganism can be easily referenced, again, simply by reading the bible.

It is worth bearing in mind that the term paganism was coined by constantine, previous to this is is not used in any texts, it is effectively a rascist term employed by him to express his distaste. We have reclaimed the term in much the same sense as homosexuals have reclaimed the terms gay and queer, they (and I) are proud to use them, bugger the enemy.

In terms of "sources" what are you after? This is one aspect of scholarly research I am highly familiar with, and I will endevour to help you out, but your question is very general and I could bore the entire thread to tears listing things so minor, or diverse, that they would rather rip their own eyes out than carry on reading (thus creating thread death).

Message me pvt if you like, but do think carefully about specific things you would like (ie - pictures of artefacts, scholarly papers, opposing xtian papers, historical documents), and bear in mind that some people referred to as pagans were often "targets" in the nazi germany sense, and that the term witch, and pagan, were used against people in land disputes and other material aspects.

weeding out the real stuff from the groundless accustations can be very hard work.:wave:

vid

I would be mainly interested not in biblical text itself, but in post NT tradition, particulary "pagan" gods made christian saints. I've heard about this quite a lot, but haven't seen any pagan god -> saint example.

KatAutumn

~Communion is an offshoot of the ancient Pagan Cake and Ale rite that was traditionally used during Sabbat rituals. Leftovers of the cakes and mead were offered as libations to the deities.

~The use of incense during Catholic Mass. Pagans traditionally "smudge" an area and individuals with incense to purify them of negative energy prior to opening the sacred circle.

~The use of candles during worship.

~Easter and all of the modern-day traditions that go along with it have Pagan roots. Ostara was the Pagan Sabbat to celebrate Eostre, the Saxon Goddess of fertility. Eggs, baskets, celebration and even the ritual of purchasing a new outfit for that special Sunday all have ties to ancient Pagan rituals.

~The Devil, Satan, Lucifer, etc. The concept of the devil stems from the Pagan depiction of Pan, or the Horned God of the Hunt. The modern-day view of Satan with his horns and capacity to drive humans to commit acts of evil all stem from myths perpetuated by the early Church to lure Pagans away from the old religion.

~Baptism used as a means to purify. Many Neo-Pagans still practice the old Pagan tradition of taking a ritual bath prior to rituals. It is meant to cleanse the body of negative energy.

~The Triune nature of God stems from the Triple Goddess (Father, Son, Holy Ghost/Maiden, Mother, Crone).

~The Triquetra is a symbol that some Christians have used throughout the centuries to illustrate the Holy Trinity; however, it is believed to have traditionally been an ancient symbol of Odin.

~The Mother Mary is viewed by Christians (and revered by Catholics) as the sacred vessel through which their god was born into the world. It is believed the depiction of Mary as the Holy Mother stems from the early Goddess worship that predates Christianity.

fatpie42

Cool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triquetra#Ancient_usage



Hmmm... kinda reminds me of the tri-force from the Legend of Zelda:

fatpie42

St. Brigid of Ireland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigid_...h_pagan_Brigid

Malachi151

Saint Nicholas:

http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=233056

vid

Thank you guys, so far.

I have two objections though:
I understand Jews did use incense too, so this adoption was in pre-OT times, right?

I think Nazarenes did have purifying ritual of entering water, and there is also "Jesus Nazarene" possible connection with early christians. So alternative explanation could be that early christians were offshoot of nazarene sect.

robto

Or another Jewish sect: Essenes were fond of ritual purifications, and John the Baptist, um, baptised. But why look for a Jewish parallel with close connections to Christian origins when there's a vague pagan parallel anywhere else in the universe?

KatAutumn

I have to be honest and say that my knowledge of Judaism is limited at best, so I was not aware of the use of incense by pre-christianity Jews.

andrewcriddle

Incense was certainly used by in the Jewish temple ritual (there are several OT references to this) , however it does not seem to have been used in Christian worship till after 300 CE. (It may possibly have been a practice of Syrian Christianity which then spread more widely.)

See http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/incense_offering.htm

Andrew Criddle