lycanthrope

In the Gospel of Mark 5:1-13, Jesus went across the Sea of Galilee to Gerasa and then commanded the demons to leave the body of a possessed man to enter a swine herd, which drowned in the sea of Galilee. But here is the catch, Gerasa is 30 miles away from the Sea, so where did the 2000 pigs drown?

My beloved JP Holding doesnt go into details about it...

map of Palestine
http://gbgm-umc.org/UMW/jesusandwome.../palestine.gif

mountainman

Dear Lycanthrope,

Perhaps we are looking at some long distance trotters. Either way it is not a good advertisement for the prevention of cruelty to animals. Whoever fabricated that part of the narrative in the canon could have been the same one who incorporated the account of the cursing of the fig tree. We are dealing with a hotch-potch fiction, written in bad greek for a greek speaking audience somewhere in the Roman empire in the first four centuries.


Best wishes,


Pete

lycanthrope

That is one possibility but I believe that I should give christians a chance to defend themselves. I was quite surprised JP Holding has not yet said anything about this. I went to tektonics but found nothing relating to this error

spamandham

I find the following thread enlightening in regard to the Jewrassic Pork story.

(now in archive since the rehosting)
http://www.freeratio.org/vbb/archive.../t-205497.html

Chili

While I do not classify as Christian it is obvious that they drowned in the Celestial sea that also nurses fig trees to prosper and bloom. I just wonder what his sin was so vile and committed so often.

patcleaver

How could Jesus cross the lake to the region of the Gerasenes, and then get out of the boat, if the region of the Gerasenes was 30 miles from the lake?
How did the men who were feeding the swine witness what happened?
How did the swine get across the Yurmak river without drowning?
How did the man who was demon possessed get to the boat with Jesus, before Jesus could tell him to go home to his family to tell them what happened?

No, Silly Apologist, magic is impossible. This is obviously fiction just like every other story about magicians really doing magic.

No, Silly Apologist, If Mark could be mistaken about the name of the city, maybe Mark is mistaken about which Jesus (Saviour) was the messiah. It could have been John the Baptist or the Egyptian or one of the Jesus' in the Talmud or in Josephus, such as Jesus ben Phiabi, Jesus ben Sec, Jesus ben Damneus, Jesus ben Gamaliel, Jesus Barabbas, Jesus ben Sirach. Jesus ben Pandira. Jesus ben Ananias, Jesus ben Saphat, Jesus ben Gamala, Jesus ben Thebuth, or Jesus ben Stada. Maybe the messiah was the Teacher of Righteousness from the Dead Sea Scrolls, or the Lord in Philippians 2:5-11 that God named Jesus after he was killed by the archons and arose from the dead, or one of the other Jesus that Paul says were being preached in 2 Corinthians 11:4.

Maybe the messiah was one of these guys (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ah_claimants):

Simon (ca. 4 BC), a former slave of Herod the Great who rebelled.
Athronges (ca. 3 BC)
Judas of Galilee (?), son of Hezekiah/Ezekias, a member of the Zealots faction who led a bloody revolt against a Roman census in AD 6. (JA18)
Theudas (? - 46), who attempted a short-lived revolt against the Romans before being slain. (JA20.5.1)
"Egyptian Prophet", c.55, with 30,000 unarmed Jews doing The Exodus reenactment massacred by Procurator Antonius Felix (JW2.13.5, JA20.8.6, Acts 21:38)[2]
Menahem ben Judah (?), allegedly son of Judas of Galilee, partook in a revolt against Agrippa II before being slain by a rival Zealot leader.
Vespasian, c.70, according to Josephus[3]
Simon bar Kokhba (?- ca. 135), founded a short-lived Jewish state before being defeated in the Second Jewish-Roman War.
Moses of Crete (?), who in about 440-470, convinced the Jews of Crete to attempt to walk into the sea to return to Israel; he disappeared after that disaster.
Ishak ben Ya'kub Obadiah Abu 'Isa al-Isfahani (684-705), who led a revolt in Persia against the Umayyad Caliph 'Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan.
Yudghan (?), a disciple of Abu 'Isa who continued the faith after Isa was slain.
Serene (?), who around 720 claimed to be the Messiah and advocated expulsion of Muslims and relaxing various rabbinic laws before being arrested; he then recanted.
David Alroy (?), born in Kurdistan, who around 1160 agitated against the caliph before being assassinated.
Nissim ben Abraham (?), active around 1295.
Moses Botarel of Cisneros (?), active around 1413; claimed to be a sorcerer able to combine the names of God.
Asher Lemmlein (?), a German near Venice who proclaimed himself a forerunner of the Messiah in 1502.
David Reubeni (1490-1541?) and Solomon Molcho (1500-1532), adventurers who travelled in Portugal, Italy, and Turkey; Molcho was eventually burned at the stake by the Pope.
A mostly unknown Czech Jew from around the 1650s.[4]
Sabbatai Zevi (1626-1676), an Ottoman Jew who claimed to be the Messiah, but then converted to Islam; still has followers today in the Donmeh.
Barukhia Russo (Osman Baba), successor of Sabbatai Zevi.
Jacob Querido (?-1690), claimed to be the new incarnation of Sabbatai; later converted to Islam and led the Donmeh.
Miguel Cardoso (1630-1706), another successor of Sabbatai who claimed to be the "Messiah ben Ephraim."
Mordecai Mokia (1650-1729), "the Rebuker," another person who proclaimed himself Messiah after Sabbatai's death.
Löbele Prossnitz (?-1750), a proven fraud who nevertheless attained some following amongst former followers of Sabbatai, calling himself the "Messiah ben Joseph."
Jacob Joseph Frank (1726-1791), who claimed to be the reincarnation of King David and preached a synthesis of Christianity and Judaism.
Menachem Mendel Schneerson (1902-1994), a Chabad Rabbi who tried to "prepare the way" for the Messiah. Despite much controversy, most of his followers believed him to be the Messiah, many still do.

Maybe there was no messiah and its all BS

How am I to know?

arnoldo

Interesting although the Gospel of Mark states that Jesus arrived at the other side of the sea and didn't go directly to Gerasa which you state is 30 miles away (an online source says that Gadara is six miles from the sea of galille), rather they arrived in the territory of the Gerasenes/country of the Gadarenes. note: Mark 5:1
Gadara was greek styled decapolis city state, thus it easily controlled vast territory, even extending to the Sea of Galille.

lycanthrope

hi

so wat evidence do u cite for that particular statement?

Craychek

though I hate killing a good arguement against the bible, I did find this that supports his statement... sorta

"Scholars debate which is the correct site of the miracle and modern translations have multiple readings of the Gospels. However, the earliest texts are very clear as to the original version of the synoptic Gospels. Upon close observation of the earliest Greek manuscripts, the Alexandrian texts, the original reading of Matthew is "in the region of the Gadarenes", and the original text of Mark and Luke is “in the country of the Gerasenes”. The earliest Greek manuscripts of Matthew, which precede the textual alteration made by Origen, locate the miracle to be within the “country of the Gadarenes” (Matt. 8:28). The Greek city of Gadara, was considered to belong to the larger region of Gerasa, though it still retained some local autonomy (Weber 1989: 9)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadara

I hope this helps or at least adds fuel to the fire

Clivedurdle

http://www.caesarsmessiah.com/summary.html