aa5874

I just EXPOSED your erroneous claim that "Nothing is known first-hand of the teachings of Marcion...."

You refusal to accept evidence from antiquity is pathetic. You want me to reject credible evidence and support your imagination.

No way.

It is the Written statements of antiquity that matters NOT what you imagine.

Justin Martyr's writings are COMPATIBLE with the DATED New Testament manuscripts when he did NOT mention the Pauline writings and the ACTS of the Apostles.

Justin Martyr is credible and his credibility is corroborated by Ephraim the Syrian in his Prose Against Marcion.

Marcion TAUGHT his disciples according to the FIRST Hand source, Justin, that the Lord was NOT the Maker and that the Son was NOT from the Lord.

We know what what Marcion preached in the mid 2nd century.

Duvduv

I see you are rather selective in quoting my posting. No problem. You cannot say that the Apology "is compatible" with the dated NT manuscripts. You should say rather that it is compatible with a time BEFORE the canonical texts emerged, which in context would fit much better in the Byzantian period than before especially given all the LACK OF UPDATED INFORMATION on Justin's "people" and religion. Have you ever bothered to notice that no one writes a word to update information about Justin's sect into later times or to fill in gaps even with fictional quotes? In a period of 200 years or so? That's because the Apology did not exist in the second century. Please feel free to reread my last post on this matter.

aa5874

Again, all imagination--all speculation. You have NOT provided a shred of evidence to support your claims about Justin.

Duvduv

No evidence?
Does anyone ever say ANYTHING about "Justin Martyr" and his community, teachers, Old Man, predecessors AFTER Justin supposedly lived? NO
Does any one ever fill in any gaps about the ostensible Christian milieu in which Justin supposedly lived? NO
Does anyone fill in ANY gaps as to why Justin never mentioned PAUL, apostles or the religion of Marcion? NO
Why is Justin in such a vacuum or black hole of 2nd century history in view of all these NOs?

The answer to these Nos is BECAUSE he DIDN'T EXIST in the 2nd century that's why. PRECISELY as "Irenaeus" didn't exist in the 2nd century either.

Does anyone know ANYTHING about Irenaeus, the great bishop of the great Christian community of Lyons? NO
Does anyone explain how Irenaeus could know about 4 gospels and the works of Paul in the mid 1st century before the destruction of the Temple by 70 CE while he claims that Jesus lived until the time of Claudius, thereby leaving no time for the career of Paul? NO

Because Irenaeus and his community of Lyons DID NOT exist in the 2nd century.

aa5874

You have NOT provided any evidence that Justin Martyr did NOT live in the 2nd century. You ONLY expressed your Belief.

It is not likely that Justin did NOT exist yet is one of the very few 2nd century writers that is compatible with the dated New Testament manuscripts.

My position is that "Against Heresies" attributed to Irenaeus appears to be a MASSIVE forgery and is NOT credible. "Against Heresies" is NOT compatible with the DATED New Testament Manuscripts and the author claimed Jesus was crucified at about 50 years old even when it is claimed he had the Four Gospels, Acts of the Apostles and the Pauline letters.

It is not likely that the author of Against Heresies 2.22 did not exist or else there would have been no need to claim Jesus was crucified at about the age of fifty years.

Duvduv

AA, an earlier writer could easily be explaining his religion to someone, and then made with a later writer after the emergence of the texts as a composite later. I already discussed this.

spin

:hysterical:

Does anyone ever mention Pontius Pilate's father? NO
Does any inscription mention him? NO
Does any source indicate his marriage to Mrs Pilate? NO
Why is Pontius Pilate's father in such a vacuum or black hole of 1st century history in view of all these NOs?

The answer to these Nos is BECAUSE Pontius Pilate's father DIDN'T EXIST in the 1st century that's why.

How many times does one have to say that lack of evidence does not imply evidence of lack?

Duvduv

Excuse me, Spin. As far as I know neither Pilate nor anyone else claimed that Pilate was a writer or leader of a Christian community, nor did he make any claims about Christianity or try to pursuade anyone about it.
But of course you can make all the false analogies you like.

aa5874

Again, more speculation. I am tired of speculation.

Why would a later writer claim Jesus was second to God which is contrary to the Nicene creed???

"First ApologyNicene Creed Justin Martyr's writings are is NOT compatible with the 4th century.

Duvduv

For all you know his position was referring to a later expression of the word Son in the phrase Father, SON and Holy Spirit relating to what became the Trinity.