Chili

Free will is and illusion for as long as we are divided in our own mind with the TOL (Tree of Life) on one side and the TOK (Tree of Knowledge) on the other and so with the TOK being a blank slate at birth for us to write upon we are like 'strangers in a foreign land' while yet driven by the TOL from where the woman (Mary we call her) 'strikes at the head of Eve (as Adam called her) who in her turn strikes at our heel (Gen.3:15) to motivate us by way of desire (tanha) until the Hypostatic Union makes us one, once again, which is about the time when Herod and Pilate became friends.

To say that we have 'free will' is to ignore the major part of our brain that we do not know, and to defend our total ignorance of who we are [that is beyond oblivion] built warships the size of cathedrals to change the world as we see, and do this from the innermost depth our being where the fires of hell that our forefathers created are still burning since 500 years back and so pay for their sins and will pay for many more generations to come. This then is how the sins of the family, clan and nation come to rest on the present generation and you may take it from there . . .

WilliamRS

Mark 9:1 is not written in a vacuum. This verse has a context and it is also in context with three other passages of the same nature in Luke 9 and Matthew 17. The quote precedes the description of the transfiguration in each case. The transfiguration is a mystic event that revealed the kingdom of God to the disciples. Thus, they did not die physically before they saw the kingdom of God which was indeed in the midst of them.

The translation in Luke 17:21 of within may also be taken to mean in the midst of. That would imply that the Kingdom of God is not visible within our normal range of sensation. However, when you take a look at the passage and you see how Jesus and the disciples arrived at the state where the transfiguration takes place, you see the same wording used in each passage.

The disciples were taken up into a high mountain. Now of course if you are a literalist then you think this means a physical mountain. If you read this as symbolic then you realize that this probably means that the Jesus led the disciples into a shared mystical experience of higher consciousness that is very much related to what shamans do. This to me makes the most sense and it also makes sense of the subsequent passage in Luke 17 as well. It also demonstrates that in fact the Kingdom of God cannot be accessed in the flesh and that as long as one insists on that, one is destined to continue to die and be reincarnated in the flesh. That is precisely the point of the passage regarding Lot and Noah and the meaning of the passage:

Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Paul teaches essentially the same thing but in a different way in Romans 7&8 and numerous other places where the flesh and the spirit are contrasted.

aa5874

So, how do you even know that the Gospels are LITERAL history in the first place? Everything MAY be Symbolic.

Jesus was NOT literal just like the mountains. The 12 disciples were NOT literal just like the mountains.

The Gospel writers, from the conception to ascension of Jesus, MAY have SIMPLY led their READERS, "into a shared mystical experience of higher consciousness that is very much related to what shamans do".

Sheshbazzar

Now they begin to understand 'dark sayings of old', and that metaphors really do exist.

Chili

Nice! and I would take this one step further and have the disciples exist on the mind of Jesus, which/who was a transformation stage in the mind of Joseph.

The 12 disciples were shepherds prior to metanoia and are the 12 ousia's that led to parousia.

sugarhitman

Punishment serves as a deterrent...and even though innocents may die..they themselves return to God.


it wiped out the Nephilim..that was His purpose...Mission accomplished.




Do you think God is in some perpetual state of looking into the future? And indeed if He did..why should He not create life because a few bad apples will choose to rebel against Him?



You have freewill. Every choice you make is proof of that.

WilliamRS

Didn't mean to imply anything was literal. I would write in the same manner about Dorothy and Toto and the Tin Man when explaining the symbolism of the Wizard of Oz.

Chili

Of course it is except that there is always 'two of us' and it is not until one of them is gone (by way of rapture for example) that are we free and not just free to choose. This will be when heaven and earth are one and the [celestial] sea (read soul) is no longer.
(oh and I venture to say that when Jesus said that we are worth more than a whole flock of sparrows he was not thinking about you).

Chili

Hey sugar, and if the cross of eternal salvation is for sinners only sin must be good and now all of a sudden the bad apples are the 'ones' he keeps.

sugarhitman

Hmm, sounds like something Alice Bailey wrote.